Sci-fy and Serenity

I myself can even testify that fantasy that promotes witchcraft can have an influence upon you to want to do the real thing. I used to love role playing games that promoted witchcraft, and it influenced me to want to cast a real spell. I was blessed by God that the Lord was protecting me that nothing happened and or that I did not have desire to keep pursuing it.

Resha Caner said:

Yeah. Really. Never once have I promoted Harry Potter. In fact, I've been quite critical of it. But because I won't condemn it for the same reasons you condemn it, you seem to think I like Harry Potter.

The course of this conversation is what is known as "fractally wrong". In other words, it has so many problems I don't even know where to start: confirmation bias, quote mining, conflation, red herrings ... and on and on.

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You can come up with fancy psychology terms until you are blue in the face. But the Lord knows my heart and intentions. They are to show you that witchcraft is being promoted in the Harry Potter films. Your not wanting to see it, is scary to me. So do you think the ex Satanist turned Christian was lying about how witchcraft was being promoted in the Harry Potter films? Do you think the children were falsely testifying that they wanted to do witchcraft as a result of these films?

Again, I myself have been influenced by something similar. Are you saying that my experience was an illusion or a lie?

Jason0047 said:

Again, I myself have been influenced by something similar. Are you saying that my experience was an illusion or a lie?

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So because it happened to you and some other people that means it will happen to all?

I'm not saying that what happened to you wasn't real, but because it happened to you it doesn't mean that it will happen to everyone. Been playing role playing games for 30+ years. I don't want to do magic or cast spells. I am not influenced by these things, just as millions of others aren't influenced.

From CBN, "This does not mean that we ever disregard or disobey God’s direct commands, such as the clear dictates that we are not to practice witchcraft, divination, sorcery, and the like (which are referred to in the Harry Potter books). It does mean that in subjective matters, including whether it’s okay to read a story with such references, we must employ personal discernment. As much as people on all sides of this debate banter about verses of Scripture, there is no specific passage that says reading about these things in a fantasy story is wrong. It remains a matter of personal discretion."

What Would Jesus Do with Harry Potter?

This is all about personal discernment as this stated and does a better job at saying it then I did and can do.

This is truly my last post on this thread. I wanted to actually respond more yesterday, even after I said I was out, but got busy on calls and bringing people to the hospital.

My daughter asked me to read her a story last night, so I read her a couple paragraphs of the Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone as this thread has got me interested in reading the series once again!

Jason0047 said:

So do you think the ex Satanist turned Christian was lying about how witchcraft was being promoted in the Harry Potter films?

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As I tried to indicate, there were so many problems with that I didn't even know where to start.

Jason0047 said:

Do you think the children were falsely testifying that they wanted to do witchcraft as a result of these films?

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No, but I've also seen people read the Bible and as a result become obsessed with numerology.

Jason0047 said:

Again, I myself have been influenced by something similar. Are you saying that my experience was an illusion or a lie?

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No.

Jason0047 said:

But the Lord knows my heart and intentions. They are to show you that witchcraft is being promoted in the Harry Potter films.

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How badly do you want to do that?

He is saying that in his universe, "Witchcraft or sorcery is okay"; But in God's Word, "it condemns it." No writer has the authority to say that these sins are not real

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I see from this and your other posts that you are blurring realities. If you have some trouble keep the two separate, then yes, maybe you should pray about it. I don't think she (J.K. Rowling) is trying to make it hard for you to separate the realities. She wants to make her universe vivid and palpable in her writing, but she is not trying to indoctrinate you in the real world. But if YOU are mixing the two, then okay--your right hand is causing you to sin, so cut it off. There is nothing particularly glorifying to God about Harry Potter, either. It's glorifying-God-neutral.

Neckelehamiah said:

Do you think it is possible to be at peace while reading and watching things like the Harry Potter series?

There has been a debate about this amongst Christians for a long time.

I really enjoy Harry Potter and I actually moderate on a virtual Harry Potter experience website. I love what I do and it is something I am passionate about.

I feel at peace with it, but maybe it is different for everyone?

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks in advance!

~Scott

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Voldemort is a hateful, power hungry, self righteous, death bringer.

Harry Potter would rather die for his friends than lose them.

Voldemort motivates with fear and craves power.

Harry Potter desires no power and only wishes to protect the innocent and weak.

- Hmmmm

I wonder where JK got that from?

Jason0047 said:

Then how do you interpret 1 John 2:15-17?
It says love not the things of this world. Is not fiction something that is of this world and it's way of thinking?

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That passage defines things of the world as "the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life" (v. 16). Fiction, as a general rule, does not fall into those categories. (If someone writes fiction to promote any of those things, that's a different story. But it does not have to.)

When God made mankind in His image, He gave us the capability for creativity, to make art. We can't create to the perfect and wondrous extent that God can, since what we make is really only within the realm of things we have already experience and/or comprehend ("write what you know", as they say), but we can still make things.

Also, Jesus told parables, which were fiction by nature.

R. Genevieve said:

That passage defines things of the world as "the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life" (v. 16). Fiction, as a general rule, does not fall into those categories. (If someone writes fiction to promote any of those things, that's a different story. But it does not have to.)

When God made mankind in His image, He gave us the capability for creativity, to make art. We can't create to the perfect and wondrous extent that God can, since what we make is really only within the realm of things we have already experience and/or comprehend ("write what you know", as they say), but we can still make things.

Also, Jesus told parables, which were fiction by nature.

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Obviously fiction that is based on Christian values or fiction that inspires people to follow the Lord is not the same as worldly secular fiction that pushes real sins. You think that just because a sin is in a fantasy setting, it is no longer a real sin being communicated. But this kind of thinking is false because Jesus condemned looking upon a woman in lust (fantasy in a sinful way) in Matthew 5:28-30.

Joined2krist said:

I don't like the idea of a school for sorcery even if it's make belief, it promotes it. I think you shouldn't be into Harry Potter as a Christian

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I believe so too. In acts they burned their magic books after they believed in Christ.
They also confessed and told of their deeds, which would have included the bad things and I suppose good things they had done in the flesh before they were born again as part of the Spirit.
After people are born again, rather than magnify themselves, they desire to magnify the Lord Jesus, what He has done for them. And these type books do not glorify the Lord Jesus.

Acts 19:18-20 New King James Version (NKJV)

18 And many who had believed came confessing and telling their deeds. 19 Also, many of those who had practiced magic brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all. And they counted up the value of them, and it totaled fifty thousand pieces of silver. 20 So the word of the Lord grew mightily and prevailed.

sdowney717 said:

I believe so too. In acts they burned their magic books after they believed in Christ.
They also confessed and told of their deeds, which would have included the bad things and I suppose good things they had done in the flesh before they were born again as part of the Spirit.
After people are born again, rather than magnify themselves, they desire to magnify the Lord Jesus, what He has done for them. And these type books do not glorify the Lord Jesus.

Acts 19:18-20 New King James Version (NKJV)

18 And many who had believed came confessing and telling their deeds. 19 Also, many of those who had practiced magic brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all. And they counted up the value of them, and it totaled fifty thousand pieces of silver. 20 So the word of the Lord grew mightily and prevailed.

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Thank you for this post.

Jason0047 said:

Obviously fiction that is based on Christian values or fiction that inspires people to follow the Lord is not the same as worldly secular fiction that pushes real sins. You think that just because a sin is in a fantasy setting, it is no longer a real sin being communicated. But this kind of thinking is false because Jesus condemned looking upon a woman in lust (fantasy in a sinful way) in Matthew 5:28-30.

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I don't know how you came to the conclusion that that is what I think, because it isn't what I think, nor is it what I said.

In my original post, I said:

R. Genevieve said:

Spiritually speaking, I think there's far, far worse book series out there than the Harry Potter books (The His Dark Materials books come to mind). That said, I think it varies from spiritual walk to spiritual walk. For example, if someone were to have practiced witchcraft before coming to Christ, they might be uncomfortable with reading a book with magic as a plot device, even if said magic is portrayed as more like a genetic super-power rather than as attempting to contact the dead, divination, etc. as it is in Scripture.

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First, I said that I understand people being concerned about the content of the books, or particularly struggling with actual witchcraft and not being comfortable with reading books using magic as a plot device. I see your concerns as legitimate, especially given what you have stated about your time playing RPG games that, whether intentionally or unintentionally, gave you an interest in witchcraft. You're not alone in your concerns, and I think you are wise to be cautious about certain fantasy novels for this reason. However, I acknowledged that not everyone is tempted to pursue witchcraft.

Second, I acknowledged that magic as it is depicted in Harry Potter is different than real witchcraft. In the books, it is more like a super-power that some people have and some people don't. With this in mind, the books have more in common with the X-Men comics than with real witchcraft. If the Harry Potter books were outright promoting, for example, Wiccan rituals, then yes, I would say avoid those books, but from what I understand (seeing as I have not read the books), this is not the case.

I did not say, "It's not a sin, and could never lead someone to sin." I said, "It's not necessarily a sin, but if it leads you to sin or to consider sinning, then cut it out of your life."

So was it loving that God killed sorcerers in the Old Testament?

Sure it was because it is a work of the enemy and God does not want us to dabble in Satanic things. Harry Potter clearly portrays sorcery and witchcraft. Folks can say it is totally different because it is not exactly like real witchcraft but they would only be seeing what they want to see. It is still witchcraft even if there is an element of fantasy.

Neckelehamiah said:

Do you think it is possible to be at peace while reading and watching things like the Harry Potter series?

There has been a debate about this amongst Christians for a long time.

I really enjoy Harry Potter and I actually moderate on a virtual Harry Potter experience website. I love what I do and it is something I am passionate about.

I feel at peace with it, but maybe it is different for everyone?

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks in advance!

~Scott

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I have very deep misgivings about Harry Potter. Exorcists/demonologists and even ex-Satanists say that those books are dangerous, pure and simple. They apparently have real spells in them.

The only people who don't seem to think the books are dangerous are the ones who know nothing about magic. The people who know what they're talking about all say that book series is to be avoided.

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Thank you All4Christ.
Please accept my apologies.
It is easy to forget sometimes.

So, I used to be an avid reader of fantasy/sci-fi fiction. In fact, when I was a teen many moons ago, I was almost never without a fantasy novel in my hands. I've read five hundred fantasy novels, at least. Piers Anthony, Terry Brooks, Stephen R. Donaldson, Tolkien (of course), Tad Williams, Isaac Asimov, C.S. Lewis, George MacDonald, Orson Scott Card, Guy Gavriel Kay - the list goes on and on. But as I've grown older and more mature in my walk with God, the attraction of fantasy/sci-fi fiction has waned significantly. As I desire and pursue a holy, Christ-centered life, I find the immediate consequence of doing so is an ever-increasing and natural separation from the world - from its philosophies, values, entertainments, morality (or lack thereof), and preoccupations with money, power and self-gratification. Most fantasy novels reflect the values, and philosophies, and morality of the world and so, as God works to separate me more and more unto Himself (holiness), the novels that are occupied with worldly matters cease to be of interest to me. It's not that I'm turning into a monk, forsaking the world physically, but that God is just more interesting, more important, more true than fantasy. The deeper I go with Him, the sillier and emptier the stories I once enjoyed become. The richer my fellowship with God is, the poorer and more foolish seem the fictions that once absorbed me.

My story is not unique. God is bigger, wilder, more delightful, more amazing, than any work of fiction, and those who are walking rightly with Him know it. As He grows in priority in a person's life (as He should), He pushes out all the stuff that competes with, or in any way diminishes, Him in a person's life. When I see professing Christians, then, caught up in being eager fans of sports figures, or movie characters, or actors, or musicians, or figures from books, I recognize a heart divided, a heart that is not yet truly possessed of God.

"For to me to live is Christ..." (Philippians 1:21)