Was Constantine a good or bad emperor from a Christian point of view

  • Mainly good

    Votes: 8 50.0%
  • Mainly bad

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • A bit of both

    Votes: 8 50.0%

  • Total voters
    16

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Constantine was the first Christian emperor of Rome , the founder of the Christian city of Constantinople which was to be the capital of the Byzantine empire for a thousand years, the builder of many key churches in the Roman empire region. Many of the creeds, canons and doctrines of the church were finalised or processes were set in motion to finalise during his reign. The man was a conqueror winning numerous battles including the famous battle of Milvian Bridge in which he had a vision of the cross before the battle. His men wore the cross on their shields to victory.

1) Was it a good thing for the church that it gained control of the government?
2) Was Constantine a real Christian?
3) What was the real fruit, in Christian terms, of his reign?
 

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1) Was it a good thing for the church that it gained control of the government?
No. Religious tolerance would be much better.
2) Was Constantine a real Christian?
Only God knows.

3) What was the real fruit, in Christian terms, of his reign?
The origin of the Roman catholicism and the idea that to be in a church means to have wordly power and a good wordly career.

The church lost its purity, because many false Christians pushed in to get the advantages.
 
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No. Religious tolerance would be much better.

The Edict of Milan 313AD was an example of that. Whereas people were persecuted for their beliefs before it, now they would not be

The origin of the Roman catholicism and the idea that to be in a church means to have wordly power and a good wordly career.

The church lost its purity, because many false Christians pushed in to get the advantages.

Are we not the citizens of 2 Kingdoms as Martin Luther put it. Was the real churches purity effected by a sudden growth of cultural Christians in the empire? It seems to me that they probably grew in number and were freed from the fears of persecution by Constantine. A bunch of extra fake Christians does not change the condition of the true church one way or another.
 
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No, we are citizens of heaven, as the apostles put it...

The world is an enemy.

That is not what the apostle Paul said here and if you pay taxes and obey the civil law then you agree with him:

Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended.4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
 
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One of the biggest effects from Constantine was the acceptance of Christianity by the state.

Contrary to MUCH pseudo-history ... Constantine did not do many of the things he is said to have done. As a clue - if your source is opposed to the Catholic Church and links Constantine with its "evils" ... look for another source. One thing Constantine DID do was to move the capital from Rome (which centuries later became the seat of Catholicism) to Constantinople (which is still the seat of the Eastern Orthodox ecumenical patriarch). So if your source connects Constantine to the "rise of Roman Catholicism" it's very suspect.

Constantine's actions greatly affected Christianity in three major ways. And only God knows what would have happened otherwise. (But in something so major, God often has a plan and if one man doesn't fulfill it, another will.)

Because Christianity became an accepted religion, this allowed a much greater spreading of the faith.

At the same time, persecution ceased, and that (along with a great influx of converts) resulted in Christians generally being much more lax.

The second point was the motive for the development of monasticism, some serious Christians separating themselves from the worldly to pursue their relationship with God and spiritual growth. This movement produced MUCH rich fruit which is still available to us today through their teachings, and has defended the faith and provided very great spiritual benefit for non-monastic Christians through the ages.

IMO those are the things to focus on with Constantine. And we don't have the knowledge of "what if" in order to judge. It looks like "good thing, resulting in a good thing, but also resulting in a bad thing, which resulted in another good thing."

God knows though.

(And I requested delete of all your duplicate threads, and locked them for you in case they don't get deleted - thanks for marking them! Hope your posting is working better now. :) )
 
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One of the biggest effects from Constantine was the acceptance of Christianity by the state.

Contrary to MUCH pseudo-history ... Constantine did not do many of the things he is said to have done. As a clue - if your source is opposed to the Catholic Church and links Constantine with its "evils" ... look for another source. One thing Constantine DID do was to move the capital from Rome (which centuries later became the seat of Catholicism) to Constantinople (which is still the seat of the Eastern Orthodox ecumenical patriarch). So if your source connects Constantine to the "rise of Roman Catholicism" it's very suspect.

Constantine's actions greatly affected Christianity in three major ways. And only God knows what would have happened otherwise. (But in something so major, God often has a plan and if one man doesn't fulfill it, another will.)

Because Christianity became an accepted religion, this allowed a much greater spreading of the faith.

At the same time, persecution ceased, and that (along with a great influx of converts) resulted in Christians generally being much more lax.

The second point was the motive for the development of monasticism, some serious Christians separating themselves from the worldly to pursue their relationship with God and spiritual growth. This movement produced MUCH rich fruit which is still available to us today through their teachings, and has defended the faith and provided very great spiritual benefit for non-monastic Christians through the ages.

IMO those are the things to focus on with Constantine. And we don't have the knowledge of "what if" in order to judge. It looks like "good thing, resulting in a good thing, but also resulting in a bad thing, which resulted in another good thing."

God knows though.

(And I requested delete of all your duplicate threads, and locked them for you in case they don't get deleted - thanks for marking them! Hope your posting is working better now. :) )

Yes I realise that Protestants , Catholics and Orthodox , not to mention Coptic and Syriac churches all have very different readings on this man. That is a helpful point when running through sources.

Interesting point about Christians getting lax after Constantine. When not being persecuted worldliness and corruption are greater issues and yes I suppose the rise of Monasticism makes sense against that background and even before the barbarian invasions and dark ages. It was the good times that drove the monks to prayer rather than the dark times. They were driven by the deeper realisation that most Christians were increasingly missing the point and wasting their lives on frivolities.
 
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Yes I realise that Protestants , Catholics and Orthodox , not to mention Coptic and Syriac churches all have very different readings on this man. That is a helpful point when running through sources.

Interesting point about Christians getting lax after Constantine. When not being persecuted worldliness and corruption are greater issues and yes I suppose the rise of Monasticism makes sense against that background and even before the barbarian invasions and dark ages. It was the good times that drove the monks to prayer rather than the dark times. They were driven by the deeper realisation that most Christians were increasingly missing the point and wasting their lives on frivolities.

Lately I've been running across so much of the pastoral writings from the likes of St. John Chrysostom and others who really lamented the downward slide of morality and lack of depth of faith and commitment. Seeing what the monastics say over the ages, it looks like Christianity generally declines with few upticks among the people. There are always those who are more dedicated than others. But overall it seems to be a degeneration, if the impressions of many through the ages are correct.

And also, when we see places under severe persecution today, we can see the faithful tend to shine more brightly in such an environment.

So I can't begin to evaluate the good and the bad of what Constantine did. I can only see for sure that his actions at that time changed things.
 
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The man was a conqueror winning numerous battles including the famous battle of Milvian Bridge in which he had a vision of the cross before the battle. His men wore the cross on their shields to victory.

So, a bit of debate here, actually. Eusebius mentions his vision of a cross, and Lactantius a 'sign' that may be a Staurogram or a Chi-Rho in a dream. These aren't the same, and though Constantine's Labarum standard certainly was a Chi-Rho later, it may not have been initially, but rather a Latin cross with a curved end - an obvious form to develop from a standard legion Vexilla. A Pagan source, the 7th Panegyric, mentions a vision of three Xs for a 30 year reign. These may be separate visions, but most modern historians think they are the same (usually connected to a solar halo). Initially it was not connected with Christianity at all by other observers, in fact.

1)Was it a good thing for the church that it gained control of the government?
The Church certainly did not gain control of the government. Constantine was a Roman Emperor, and you don't get to become sole Emperor and overthrowing the Tetrarchy, nor remain Emperor, without much blood and strife and effort. Pagans remained in high office (Augustine dedicated City of God to a Pagan Proconsul of Africa for example), as the strife with the mostly Pagan Senate later testifies, and while patronage of State Cults diminished under the Flavians, Theodosius first actively ended them. Even then, Paganism was not outlawed, as even in the heart of Rome the Lupercalia continued to be done into the 6th century!

The Church perhaps helped buttress rule in the latter Empire, but it certainly never took control. Even in the Eastern Empire in Byzantine times, matters of State took precedence - in fact, Justinian would codify a form of Caesaropapism later.
2) Was Constantine a real Christian?
Christianity was certainly a rising idea at the time, so Constantine using it to further his ends as Emperor is obvious. Was it all show? I don't think so. He could have just made syncretic noises with his previous deity of Sol Invictus (where Jesus anyway became often depicted with solar attributes at the time), playing both sides, as others will do in future (like Mongol Khans or Toyotomi Hideyoshi). To expressly favour Christianity certainly cost him some political capital too, as is clear in his later war with Licinius, the building of Churches, and the fallout of his killing his wife Fausta for adultery. His baptism only later in life was normal practice at the time, anyway.

He was a deeply flawed sinner, as are we all. Being an Emperor, his flaws obviously were magnified by the resources at his command. I see no reason to doubt a sincere commitment, which is anyway what the sources claim. He will face God in judgement like the rest of us, anyway.
3) What was the real fruit, in Christian terms, of his reign?
Constantine facilitated processes that were anyway ongoing, such as the Church defining Orthodoxy and such, and speeded up the ongoing conversion of the Empire. The spread of Christianity within it, was remarkable before this, especially in light of official condemnation. It is estimated that lower Egypt was already mostly Christian by the late 3rd century, so in Constantine's day, Christians were probably about 10% or so of the population - nearing the point where exponential growth would have been expected.

The point above of increased laxity makes sense, as far more fair-weather Christians obviously came to be, and the dangers of worldly advancement crept into a Church career, where previously it mostly just offered martyrdom. Constantine was an important figure in Christian history, but secularists and conspiracy theorists like to overemphasise him to a ludicrous degree.
 
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The truth is Constantine merely legalized Christianity. It was Theodosius that actually made Christianity the state religion of the empire.

It is interesting to me that the last full Roman Emperor was the one who made Christianity the imperial religion. It was as though with that last act the purpose of the empire had been fulfilled and it could now be broken up for the sake of the salvation of the barbarians beyond their borders. That to me is an evidence of the sovereignty of God

Theodosius actively persecuted the old Roman religions also and finalised the Nicene creeds at Constantinople in 381.
 
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Lately I've been running across so much of the pastoral writings from the likes of St. John Chrysostom and others who really lamented the downward slide of morality and lack of depth of faith and commitment. Seeing what the monastics say over the ages, it looks like Christianity generally declines with few upticks among the people. There are always those who are more dedicated than others. But overall it seems to be a degeneration, if the impressions of many through the ages are correct.

And also, when we see places under severe persecution today, we can see the faithful tend to shine more brightly in such an environment.

So I can't begin to evaluate the good and the bad of what Constantine did. I can only see for sure that his actions at that time changed things.

The ups and downs of the faith come in waves more than inevitable decline. The Byzantine Religion was continually renewed over a thousand years before finally crumbling. The raising up of an adversary to the faith seems to be an agent of its renewal in some cases and can make things worse in others. In the case of the fight against the Sassanid empire I think the Byzantine state significantly encroached into the realm of religious faith in ways that were entirely inappropriate and caused immense dissatisfaction amongst their subject populations as a result. This dissatisfaction was exploited by the Muslim invaders who were even able to secure Christians allies against the empire as a result. But the challenge of Islam and the sieges of Constantinople proved to be a force for renewal of true faith and of genuine revival.

The peace that Christianity enjoyed after Constantine may have meant that they and the empire went soft and was no longer able to resist the barbarians at its gates. The sense of urgency and or purity and of passion that existed under persecution was lost in the comfortable times before the fall of the Western Empire and may indeed have contributed to that fall.
 
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That is not what the apostle Paul said here and if you pay taxes and obey the civil law then you agree with him:

Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended.4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
This doesnt mean that the apostle Paul wanted us to love the world.
 
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This doesnt mean that the apostle Paul wanted us to love the world.

Clearly not but is this the legacy of Constantine. By ending the persecution of Christians and the building of churches dedicated to Gods glory, the calling of councils to resolve divisive disputes he acted as a Protector and as one who blesses the church.
 
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Clearly not but is this the legacy of Constantine. By ending the persecution of Christians and the building of churches dedicated to Gods glory, the calling of councils to resolve divisive disputes he acted as a Protector and as one who blesses the church.
How did he build a church? A church is made of spiritual stones, not carnal ones.
 
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So, a bit of debate here, actually. Eusebius mentions his vision of a cross, and Lactantius a 'sign' that may be a Staurogram or a Chi-Rho in a dream. These aren't the same, and though Constantine's Labarum standard certainly was a Chi-Rho later, it may not have been initially, but rather a Latin cross with a curved end - an obvious form to develop from a standard legion Vexilla. A Pagan source, the 7th Panegyric, mentions a vision of three Xs for a 30 year reign. These may be separate visions, but most modern historians think they are the same (usually connected to a solar halo). Initially it was not connected with Christianity at all by other observers, in fact.

Eusebius says he got that direct from the Emperor. Clearly something happened that made the Emperor dedicate his campaign to Christ. Whether it was a cross or a Chi-Ro is less important than the reason why he chose it as the symbol to fight under.

The Church certainly did not gain control of the government. Constantine was a Roman Emperor, and you don't get to become sole Emperor and overthrowing the Tetrarchy, nor remain Emperor, without much blood and strife and effort. Pagans remained in high office (Augustine dedicated City of God to a Pagan Proconsul of Africa for example), as the strife with the mostly Pagan Senate later testifies, and while patronage of State Cults diminished under the Flavians, Theodosius first actively ended them. Even then, Paganism was not outlawed, as even in the heart of Rome the Lupercalia continued to be done into the 6th century!

But the sea change, the trigger moment was with Constantine and this battle was crucial to the momentum that established him as emperor in charge of the Roman state and with an inclination to bless rather than curse Christians. But yes the process took longer than that to work through. I am surprised the Roman religions lasted so long and especially since they were hollow and unfounded.

The Church perhaps helped buttress rule in the latter Empire, but it certainly never took control. Even in the Eastern Empire in Byzantine times, matters of State took precedence - in fact, Justinian would codify a form of Caesaropapism later.

The intrusiveness of the state in matters spiritual was very noticeable in the Byzantine empire and I wonder if that intrusiveness managed to alienate large segments of its Christian subjects who as a result supported Islamic armies against the Byzantines (ultimately to their own detriment). Whether or not that trend was inevitable by the time of Constantine or even later under Theodosius is not clear though.

Christianity was certainly a rising idea at the time, so Constantine using it to further his ends as Emperor is obvious. Was it all show? I don't think so. He could have just made syncretic noises with his previous deity of Sol Invictus (where Jesus anyway became often depicted with solar attributes at the time), playing both sides, as others will do in future (like Mongol Khans or Toyotomi Hideyoshi). To expressly favour Christianity certainly cost him some political capital too, as is clear in his later war with Licinius, the building of Churches, and the fallout of his killing his wife Fausta for adultery. His baptism only later in life was normal practice at the time, anyway.

He was a deeply flawed sinner, as are we all. Being an Emperor, his flaws obviously were magnified by the resources at his command. I see no reason to doubt a sincere commitment, which is anyway what the sources claim. He will face God in judgement like the rest of us, anyway.

He was the Emperor on the turn, still Roman but with an emerging Christian conscience. To judge him from the distance of more established ideas of what a Christian ruler looks like is to forget that the transition to this started with him. But yes agree he was far from perfect. It seems to me the momentum of his life was in a Christian direction and because of the position he achieved that pushed the momentum of the Roman state in the same direction.

Constantine facilitated processes that were anyway ongoing, such as the Church defining Orthodoxy and such, and speeded up the ongoing conversion of the Empire. The spread of Christianity within it, was remarkable before this, especially in light of official condemnation. It is estimated that lower Egypt was already mostly Christian by the late 3rd century, so in Constantine's day, Christians were probably about 10% or so of the population - nearing the point where exponential growth would have been expected.

The point above of increased laxity makes sense, as far more fair-weather Christians obviously came to be, and the dangers of worldly advancement crept into a Church career, where previously it mostly just offered martyrdom. Constantine was an important figure in Christian history, but secularists and conspiracy theorists like to overemphasise him to a ludicrous degree.

It is a good way to look at him as symptomatic of broader trends but so also he made personal choices that made a radical difference.

The church had not faced the challenges of its own success up until this point on this global level though there were local examples like the church in Ephesus which John commented might have forgotten its first love and declined somewhat in its passion levels from the initial excitement of conversion. But the idea that it had to be defined as being made up of the poor, the powerless and the rejected of society does not fit the broader Judeao-Christian narrative in which rich men and poor , Kings and slaves , the high born and the low class all must account to God. The church was not just Lazarus the pauper but also Solomon and David. Not just a farmer in lower Egypt but also the Emperor in his palace in Constantinople.
 
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How did he build a church? A church is made of spiritual stones, not carnal ones.

The church is founded on Christ and we are each growing up into him. In practice we are each both spiritual and carnal without exception. He took worldly people and made them into his disciples, he changed the demon possessed and tax collectors, Prostitutes and hypocritical Pharisees into followers of the Way. That he took the ultimate symbol of worldliness and pagan authority - the Emperor of Rome and converted him to be a Christian is a small surprise against that background.
 
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The church is founded on Christ and we are each growing up into him. In practice we are each both spiritual and carnal without exception. He took worldly people and made them into his disciples, he changed the demon possessed and tax collectors, Prostitutes and hypocritical Pharisees into followers of the Way. That he took the ultimate symbol of worldliness and pagan authority - the Emperor of Rome and converted him to be a Christian is a small surprise against that background.
Still, how did he build the church? Thats the job of apostles not emperors
 
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Still, how did he build the church? Thats the job of apostles not emperors

The relationship between the church and the state was simple in the days of the apostles. The church had no influence on the decisions of the state and basically had a policy of respecting its authority and laws. This while focusing on the task of building the church. By the time of Constantine the church had grown to the point where public officials were Christians and even the Emperor of Rome. In that context the question of the dichotomy between church and state is a false one. The question was rather how could both be brought into harmony with Christ. Baby Christians only need the simple basics of repent and believe. The more mature church needed to reach back into the Old Testament for guidance on how to be a Christian ruler and how to mould the state and society into the image of Christ.
 
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