BREXIT: Revocation

mindlight said:

Things have gone very quiet since the extension till end October was agreed. A lot of people are fed up with BREXIT but right now our futures are still wide open and revocation, hard Brexit or indeed soft BREXIT remain on the table. We have no cause to relax and just leave this till the last minute again even if the European elections are going to be the next chapter in the story

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mindlight said:

The last thread seems to have been closed by mods but this is still a live issue. But please keep things civil.

So new question:

Would the revocation of Britains intention to leave the EU be undemocratic?

Should it happen or not?

Got this email from government this morning:

This Government will not revoke Article 50. We will honour the result of the 2016 referendum and work with Parliament to deliver a deal that ensures we leave the European Union. It remains the Government’s firm policy not to revoke Article 50. We will honour the outcome of the 2016 referendum and work to deliver an exit which benefits everyone, whether they voted to Leave or to Remain. Revoking Article 50, and thereby remaining in the European Union, would undermine both our democracy and the trust that millions of voters have placed in Government. The Government acknowledges the considerable number of people who have signed this petition. However, close to three quarters of the electorate took part in the 2016 referendum, trusting that the result would be respected. This Government wrote to every household prior to the referendum, promising that the outcome of the referendum would be implemented. 17.4 million people then voted to leave the European Union, providing the biggest democratic mandate for any course of action ever directed at UK Government. British people cast their votes once again in the 2017 General Election where over 80% of those who voted, voted for parties, including the Opposition, who committed in their manifestos to upholding the result of the referendum. This Government stands by this commitment. Revoking Article 50 would break the promises made by Government to the British people, disrespect the clear instruction from a democratic vote, and in turn, reduce confidence in our democracy. As the Prime Minister has said, failing to deliver Brexit would cause “potentially irreparable damage to public trust”, and it is imperative that people can trust their Government to respect their votes and deliver the best outcome for them.

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mindlight said:

In a way that Referendum is the European election. That looks like being won hands down by pro-BREXIT parties. There would be no case for Revocation if that were case and we are back to considering how BREXIT will happen i.e. with or without a deal. Given the parliamentary paralysis it looks like a no deal BREXIT is the most likely scenario at the present time.

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mindlight said:

it will be June till she leaves 10 Downing Street but yes the process has begun. It seems the challenge of BREXIT has been her undoing and remains a poisoned chalice to pass to her successor. If a pro Hard Brexiteer wins I guess they will have to play the parliamentary disagreement game until time runs out on 31st October as they will not secure a majority for that. But a more moderate candidate would have to reach out to Corbyn and whatever they agreed would probably be rejected by the right of the Tory party.

We have yet to see the result of the EU election but it seems to me that the Tories have been identified on the BREXIT side while Labour voters are more inclined to be remainers despite Corbyns position. So thinking ahead to the next election Tories may be tempted to support a BREXIT implementer and Labour might be tempted to get rid of Corbyn.

Since I want revocation and do not want Corbyn anywhere near No. 10 it is really hard to see what the best outcome is.

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mindlight said:

Yes the mans character is admirable and actually most of the church in the UK seem pro-BREXIT. That puzzles me I must admit. It seems to me the less introverted and selfish option to belong to the larger team of Europe though and the real motives for BREXIT politics are about immigration and control rather than restoring a Christian outlook to the country.

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mindlight said:

Well no state on earth passes that test with the possible exception of the Vatican and various rare historical examples like Britain under Alfred or in the nineteenth century, the Franks under Charlemagne, , Imperial Spain and the Byzantine Empire. The Crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem just after its foundation after the First Crusade might be another example.

But let me put it another way. Is the EU looking after the common good of all its citizens and not just the rich 1%. Is it a place where you can worship Christ freely? Answer to both those questions would be yes.

Britain in my experience has far more restrictions on Christian freedom of speech than just about any time in its history since King Alfred. It is becoming harder and harder to speak out against gay marriage, abortion and false religions , witchcraft and weird occultic monsters dominate the media and literature. Is this a country that can save itself.



It makes us a member of a larger community in which a proper perspective on national hangups is possible, in which prosperity, freedom and the rule of law can spread to countries that suffered previously under Communism



The first premise of the German Grundgesetz (Its constitution) is the inviolability of the individual. Freedom of opinion, of speech and of religion is built into the constitution of the country. Germans are not afflicted by the political correctness that has perverted the media, schools and companies of Britain into organs of propaganda for LGBT and False religion. The secularism in modern Britain and Germany is an issue but not an insurmountable one. I am not sure why Britain thinks it has to deal with alone and isolated from the churches of Europe. No shops are open here on a Sunday, I celebrate more Christian bank holidays than you do living in Germany and Christianity is written into the test for German nationality as being the shaping force of European culture. The German understanding of economics is the Social Market. Basically that is moderated capitalism. So Germany is not as unequal as Britain or as America in terms of salaries. Can you really justify a CEO being paid 1000 times more than an IT expert in Christian terms.

My church have welcomed many of the refugees you dismiss as worthless to the German and European culture. Many have become Christians, some were Christians and have fled persecution and been granted Asylum. Some are Muslims who are fed up with Islams continual infighting and its oppressive and impoverishing national cultures, They are looking for peace with safety for their children and the chance of a better life. It is not a Christian thing to put up a wall against such people. It is the key to opening the door to the Muslim world and bringing the whole rotten edifice crashing down, just as Communism and innumerable other religions have fallen before it in the face of Christian witnesses.



Well the list above is a start

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