Does sinful man deserve God’s justice?

.......

RDKirk said:

But we cannot overlook:

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them
....
He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them." -- John 6

This goes along with the point that the Father (through, I would say, the Holy Spirit now) is already moving to make acceptance of the gospel even possible through certain people.

I'm not going to get into a debate about how God makes His decision of who to enable, only that the evangelist can be confident that people have been enabled and are waiting to hear the gospel...even if they don't realize it themselves.

Click to expand...

Oh bother... I can’t help it! So here’s the deal...

With John 6:65...

Jesus is speaking to Israel. He is teaching them about Himself and that they must respond to a deeper election than the Election of Israel.

He is, in context of John 6 (He is the Bread of Life)... explaining that unless they respond to His gesture, to come... which they had no idea about... (The Cross)... they will be void of the drawing of the Father.

The Son is the Drawing of the Father. The Son Draws all to the Father, but not all respond.

Jesus is speaking towards election that is different than the Election of Israel. He is again showing them there will be New Election in Him.

Calvinism inherently ignores that the audience of Jesus was strictly Israel. Gentiles are referred to as dogs, before Jesus’ DBR and the witness of Paul, after his vision about the meats.

Notice I keep bringing all back to Jesus?

Doesn’t John 5:39 exegetically demand this?

Imagine that. In context, John 5:39 comes right before John 6... <~ see what I did there?

Jesus’ foreshadowing...

12 If I have told you about things that happen on earth and you don’t believe, how will you believe if I tell you about things of heaven? 13 No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man. 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 so that everyone who believes in Him will have eternal life.
John 3:12-15 - Bible Gateway passage: John 3:12-15 - Holman Christian Standard Bible

Hammster said:

They can make free choices.

Click to expand...

What do you mean?

GodsGrace101 said:

What does it mean to CONDITIONALLY REPENT?
I've never heard of this.

Click to expand...

salvation is conditional, therefore certain conditions, as repentance, must be met before one can be saved.

Hammster said:

We don’t stand in condemnation because we are in Christ. That’s mercy.

Click to expand...

So those in Christ do not deserve God's justice/condemnation Romans 8:1

TheSeabass said:

salvation is conditional, therefore certain conditions, as repentance, must be met before one can be saved.

Click to expand...

Repentance is not conditional on anything.
We've lost sight of what repent means.
I get tired of repeating what it means,,,so I won't.

Salvation is conditional. Correct.
Repentance is not.

GodsGrace101 said:

Repentance is not conditional on anything.


Salvation is conditional. Correct.
Repentance is not.

Click to expand...

No, I said salvation is conditional upon one repenting

TheSeabass said:

No, I said salvation is conditional upon one repenting

Click to expand...

Correct.
I thought in your original comment you mentioned
conditional repentance.
Salvation is indeed conditional on repentance.

GodsGrace101 said:

Correct.
I thought in your original comment you mentioned
conditional repentance.
Salvation is indeed conditional on repentance.

Click to expand...

One must meet the condition of repentance before he can be saved was my point.

Hammster said:

I’m curious where you find this in scripture.

Click to expand...

LOL
You would be.
I'm waiting too.
But I have the answer.

GodsGrace101 said:

Correct.
I thought in your original comment you mentioned
conditional repentance.
Salvation is indeed conditional on repentance.

Click to expand...

Change of mind.

TheSeabass said:

So those in Christ do not deserve God's justice/condemnation Romans 8:1

Click to expand...

First, "justice" and "condemnation" are not technically the same thing.

Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow. -- Isiaiah 1

Justice for the innocent, such as widows and the fatherless, for instance, is not condemnation.

Justice for the guilty is condemnation.

Those in Christ are removed from the judicial process entirely, though mercy. We are not judged at all.

RDKirk said:

First, "justice" and "condemnation" are not technically the same thing.

Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow. -- Isiaiah 1

Justice for the innocent, such as widows and the fatherless, for instance, is not condemnation.

Justice for the guilty is condemnation.

Those in Christ are removed from the judicial process entirely, though mercy. We are not judged at all.

Click to expand...

Theologically, I agree.
This is what the N.T. teaches about God.
So then how do you understand John 5:28-29?

Hammster said:

I’m curious where you find this in scripture.

Click to expand...

Luke 13:3; Acts 2:38

RDKirk said:

First, "justice" and "condemnation" are not technically the same thing.

Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow. -- Isiaiah 1

Justice for the innocent, such as widows and the fatherless, for instance, is not condemnation.

Justice for the guilty is condemnation.

Those in Christ are removed from the judicial process entirely, though mercy. We are not judged at all.

Click to expand...

The OP did not explicitly define what was meant by 'justice'.

I see 'justice' as meaning doing what is right. So the question "Does sinful man deserve God’s justice?" implied to me that sinful men deserve justice, that is, deserve condemnation for their sin.

My response is that it depends if sinful man repents or not.

Hammster said:

Where are you seeing that it’s conditional to be saved?

Click to expand...

Jesus said to repent or perish, therefore one is in a lost state (perish) unless/until he repents. Same idea in 2 Peter 3:9...one perishes until/unless he repents.

Men have been commanded to repent Acts 17:30. The command itself makes repentance necessary.

The impenitent are lost, (Romans 2:4-5) (Revelation 9:20-21)