Did the event of 1948 Israel fulfill any Bible prophecy?

parousia70 said:

Zero.

Click to expand...

A remnant of Jews returned.

nonaeroterraqueous said:

The kingdom of Israel is a kingdom, not a democracy. If you haven't brought back the kingdom, then you haven't brought back ancient Israel. David was specifically promised that his line would reign over Israel forever. Do you see that happening in what is called Israel, today? Is there any chance of it happening? No, but we do have a king from the line of David who rules over spiritual Israel, and his name is Jesus.

Click to expand...

Israel later became a kingdom under Saul, David, and Solomon. But it never was a "kingdom" prior to Saul. It started out as a Democracy. Have you not read that in Judges 21:25....

Judges 21:25 (NKJV) In those days there was no king in Israel; everyone did what was right in his own eyes.

Now the is virtually the definition of Democracy. That is one of the reasons the U.S. was established as a Republic, not a Democracy. Just a wee side note.

Israel was intended all along to be a kingdom under Yeshua, but it was not initially established as a kingdom. So the Israel we see today can indeed be valid in that just like the Israel that came out of Egypt and settled in Canaan, the Israelites have returned and are likewise establishing the nation in the land of Canaan. The kingdom under Yeshua will be realized further down the road.

Crass literalism has plagued the believer for a very long time about prophecies of the OT and Revelation. One doesn't take a news headline and then goes scampering off to fit that headline into some newly applicable verse that God must have had in mind … that is simply an attempt to predict in some form where we are in the time line of the return of Christ.

Copperhead said:

The Torah requirement for any matter to be established, it must be proven on the testimony of two witnesses. The Bereans of Acts 17 showed us how that is applied. Any doctrine espoused must be confirmed by the two witnesses.... OT and NT. So for you assertion to be true, you must prove from both OT and NT that Israel now comprises the entirety of the planet, and no longer applies to merely the land promised to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Click to expand...

Jesus is Abraham's seed along with believers according to Paul. Abraham's seed = Israel. First called Hebrews and then Israel interchangeably by Moses. All the promises made to Abraham are yes in Jesus according to Paul. And Israel now occupies the entire earth as promises to Abraham.

Copperhead said:

I have some doubt you actually have read Romans 11. I see that Israel has had a blindness until the fulness of the gentiles be brought in. I see the gifts and calling of Yahweh on the Hebrew people as being irrevocable. All in Romans 11. And it also states that those who do believe should not boast against the Israelites that don't believe.

Click to expand...

If the broken off believers are Israel, to whom are they reattached upon having faith?

“And even they, if they do not remain in unbelief, will be grafted in, because God has the power to graft them in again. For if you were cut off from your native wild olive and against nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these—the natural branches—be grafted into their own olive tree?” (Romans 11:23–24)

Dave L said:

Jesus is Abraham's seed along with believers according to Paul. Abraham's seed = Israel. First called Hebrews and then Israel interchangeably by Moses. All the promises made to Abraham are yes in Jesus according to Paul. And Israel now occupies the entire earth as promises to Abraham.

Click to expand...

I am not really into Restoration theology, so I will demur.

Copperhead said:

I am not really into Restoration theology, so I will demur.

Click to expand...

What is restoration theology?

Dave L said:

If the broken off believers are Israel, to whom are they reattached upon having faith?

“And even they, if they do not remain in unbelief, will be grafted in, because God has the power to graft them in again. For if you were cut off from your native wild olive and against nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these—the natural branches—be grafted into their own olive tree?” (Romans 11:23–24)

Click to expand...

To counter your idea of what is being said....

Romans 9:3-5 (NKJV) For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; 5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.

Paul is speaking of the unbelieving Hebrews. And the highlighted portion is specifically present tense, current. And Paul clearly states in the opening verse of Romans 11 that God has not cast away His people, the Israelites. Irrsepective of the myth of "lost tribes" and other Restoration Theology ideas.

Dave L said:

What is restoration theology?

Click to expand...

Go study and show yourself approved.

Grip Docility said:

I have 3 legitimate questions...

1) What is going on here?

So when they had come together, they asked Him, “Lord, are You restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or periods that the Father has set by His own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come on you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”
Acts 1:6-8 - Bible Gateway passage: Acts 1:6-8 - Holman Christian Standard Bible

2) What is going on here, as in literally where are His feet, where does He go, how does He get there?

After He had said this, He was taken up as they were watching, and a cloud took Him out of their sight. While He was going, they were gazing into heaven, and suddenly two men in white clothes stood by them. They said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking up into heaven? This Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come in the same way that you have seen Him going into heaven.”
Acts 1:9-11 - Bible Gateway passage: Acts 1:9-11 - Holman Christian Standard Bible

Where did His feet leave from?

Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called the Mount of Olives, which is near Jerusalem—a Sabbath day’s journey away.
Acts 1:12 - Bible Gateway passage: Acts 1:12 - Holman Christian Standard Bible

Click to expand...

Your #1 question is where the disciples/apostles ask when Jesus will restore Israel. Remember that at that time these disciples did not understand the full nature of Christ's Kingdom yet...though they were taught they did not comprehend and that is fully brought out in the Gospels. It was on Pentecost and beyond that the Holy Spirit visited them...at baptism and as I said beyond...and their Kingdom work assignments and understanding of it unfolded as we read in Acts...no unclean meat, etc.
Paul gives us the parable of sorts of the olive tree in Romans which bears out that Israel is all true believers. He also says "even the Israel of God" in Galatians. Jesus says no man comes to the Father but by Me...the covenant stipulations apply to each and every member of His body equally, no exceptions and no qualifiers to bypass this requirement. Also Scripture says our old labels fade away and we all unite as one body...
Colossians 3:10-12:
and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.
Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.
As concerns the return of Jesus from where He left the Apostles on Ascension Day, are the angels there not speaking of His departure and return to the earth for the final judgement and not the identical spot of earth Jesus stood on when He ascended? Yes, Indeed that is my stand!.

parousia70 said:

Zero.

Click to expand...

Oh come now. You can't just leave us hanging! Inquiring minds want to know! Proof please!

Copperhead said:

Go study and show yourself approved.

Click to expand...

Where does scripture mention such a thing as this?

Dave L said:

Where does scripture mention such a thing as this?

Click to expand...

Oh My, sorry to chime in on this, but you should know, shouldn't you???

Copperhead said:

To counter your idea of what is being said....

Romans 9:3-5 (NKJV) For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; 5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.

Paul is speaking of the unbelieving Hebrews. And the highlighted portion is specifically present tense, current. And Paul clearly states in the opening verse of Romans 11 that God has not cast away His people, the Israelites. Irrsepective of the myth of "lost tribes" and other Restoration Theology ideas.

Click to expand...

Many whom Paul spoke to were circumcised Jews entering the New Covenant where circumcision no longer applied. Those who did not join in became gentiles by default, after Jesus abolished circumcision.

throughfireytrial said:

Oh My, sorry to chime in on this, but you should know, shouldn't you???

Click to expand...

I have not a clue what you are talking about.

Grip Docility said:

1) What is going on here?

So when they had come together, they asked Him, “Lord, are You restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or periods that the Father has set by His own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come on you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

Click to expand...

The thing to note about the question the disciples asked... Yeshua does not say it was a invalid question but that it was not for them to know when it would happen. The idea of the Messiah restoring the kingdom of Israel is paramount in Hebrew thinking and fully supported in the OT. And never refuted by Yeshua.

HI i read the 1st page of responses and now page 5 but no all in the middle so I may be saying what was said before. I see you listed 3 verses as the area to discuss and one is about the sign of the end of the age. The debate then is centered about the destruction of Israel the Temple and Jerusalem which occurred in 70 AD. Seems the offered verses are trying to say Jerusalem in 70 AD is the one destroyed in Rev 18.
When I look to sort out these ideas and try to put them in chronological order all the other verses of the Bible will be in synchronization if you have it correct. When I see the and of the age in the OT I think of Dan 2 and 7 where the kingdom comes and in Dan 2 it is described as a stone which strikes the image of the kingdoms of man and grinds them to powder leaving no trace. This stone becomes a kingdom that covers the earth and has no end. When we see the parallel coming of the kingdom in Dan 7 a pompous one rises to authority and is persecuting the saints for a times times and half a time. He is destroyed and his body give to the flame when the son of man described like the glorious risen Lord Jesus is given dominion and authority and the kingdom which will never end.
So if 70ad is it we are in the kingdom age now. I can't see the Lord running the world like it is now. I see in ZEch 14 the day that the LORD is king over all the earth and instead of Jerusalem being destroyed it is being saved by the coming of the LORD with His saints. The enemies are melted and in this day the LORD is king over all the earth. This ties perfectly together with 2 thes and Rev 13 and 20 which give more details of the antichrist in Daniel known as the pompous one. In 2 thess the man of sin is revealed when he blasphemes in the Temple and declares he is a god. He is destroyed by the brightness of the coming of the Lord. So to is the beast in Rev 13 who is also seen persecuting the saints. He then enforces the mark of the beat for 42 months and has global authority and is destroyed by the coming of the Lord. So if the LORD comes and saves Jerusalem Rev 18 is not Jerusalem.
We see the distinction of the desolation which occurred in 70AD as fulfilled prophecy. We see the regathering of Israel as setting the stage for the end of the age. In Luke Jesus is given a mission prophecy.
67 Now his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying:
68 “Blessed is the Lord God of Israel,
For He has visited and redeemed His people,
69 And has raised up a horn of salvation for us
In the house of His servant David,
70 As He spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets,
Who have been since the world began,
71 That we should be saved from our enemies
And from the hand of all who hate us,
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers
And to remember His holy covenant,
73 The oath which He swore to our father Abraham:
74 To grant us that we,
Being delivered from the hand of our enemies,
Might serve Him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before Him all the days of our life.

If you look at ZEch 14 we see life continues on earth as the new river flows year round after the mount of Olves has split and it says the nations who are left will now keep the feast of Tabernacles or they will get no rain. This is future and the LORD is on the throne of David. This earth will have 1000 year reign of glory and peace and abundance with righteous judgment and this kingdom does not end at the end of the 1000 years it changes locations. When the beast is destroyed Satan is bound for 1000 years. The nations who were deceived are no longer deceived for 1000 years. Those who lost their heads for the mark of the beast live and reign with Him for 1000 years. If we look at history over since 70 AD it does not reflect Satan being bound and the lORD reigning. Now we have Jerusalem back in Israel a nation and soon the 3rd temple will come. The man of sin will blaspheme, th epompous one the beast. it is coming.

Dave L said:

Where does scripture mention such a thing as this?

Click to expand...

Where is the verse that mentions the Trinity? A doctrinal concept can have a name that is not described specifically in scripture. My suggestion is to do a search on Restoration Theology and find out what it entails.

Copperhead said:

Where is the verse that mentions the Trinity? A doctrinal concept can have a name that is not described specifically in scripture. My suggestion is to do a search on Restoration Theology and find out what it entails.

Click to expand...

Sounds as though Restoration Theology cannot be defined.

Dave L said:

Sounds as though Restoration Theology cannot be defined.

Click to expand...

No. Sounds like you don't want to put in the legwork to research it. I don't hold to the concept so I am not obligated to describe it for you. But I am aware of the concept and have looked into it and a lot of what you are talking about mirrors quite a bit of that theology. Not specifically saying you are in that camp, only that a lot of what you state sounds a lot like Restoration Theology stuff. And the theology has a lot of questionable attributes.