Did the event of 1948 Israel fulfill any Bible prophecy?

LittleLambofJesus said:

But remember, just as vengeance and wrath came upon Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 ad, so also the same ocurred about 400 yrs later with the destruction of Rome.

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Rome was never destroyed. The Roman empire split in two and imploded.

Dave L said:

Jesus saying their house being left desolate;

“Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.” (Matthew 23:38)

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I am convinced that Yeshua was talking about the Temple, not the whole house of Israel. The religious leadership rejected the Lord so now the Lord's House is now their house as the Lord is departing it. His comments on this was given at the Temple area. And to make the point, in Matthew 24:1 Yeshua departs from the Temple area after delivering these comments.

Dave L said:

When are the times of the gentiles fulfilled?

“Teaching them [gentiles] to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.” (Matthew 28:20)

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Depending on translation, "world" is "age" in other translations. The Greek behind it suggest a period of time and not a single event. The "age" of the gentiles will come to an end when the fullness of the gentiles comes in and Israel becomes the main focus again. And that will be at the end / latter days prior to Yeshua's return because He will not return till they acknowledge their offense of rejecting Him and then turn to Him and proclaim "Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord". Hosea 5:15 / Matthew 23:39.

Copperhead said:

I am convinced that Yeshua was talking about the Temple, not the whole house of Israel. The religious leadership rejected the Lord so now the Lord's House is now their house as the Lord is departing it. His comments on this was given at the Temple area. And to make the point, in Matthew 24:1 Yeshua departs from the Temple area after delivering these comments.

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Matthew 23:38 Greek

3624 [e]
oikos
οἶκος
house
N-NMS

οἶκος ὑμῶν, of the city of Jerusalem, Matthew 23:38; Luke 13:35.

A reference to the ultimate destruction of the entire city in 70 AD.

Copperhead said:

Depending on translation, "world" is "age" in other translations. The Greek behind it suggest a period of time and not a single event. The "age" of the gentiles will come to an end when the fullness of the gentiles comes in and Israel becomes the main focus again. And that will be at the end / latter days prior to Yeshua's return because He will not return till they acknowledge their offense of rejecting Him and then turn to Him and proclaim "Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord". Hosea 5:15 / Matthew 23:39.

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It only speaks of two ages/worlds. This present evil age and the age to come = new heavens and earth. No room for a millennium in this present evil age. Jesus says his kingdom in not of this world.

Copperhead said:

I am convinced that Yeshua was talking about the Temple, not the whole house of Israel. The religious leadership rejected the Lord so now the Lord's House is now their house as the Lord is departing it. His comments on this was given at the Temple area. And to make the point, in Matthew 24:1 Yeshua departs from the Temple area after delivering these comments.

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Remember, Paul says he removed the unbelievers in Romans 11 leaving only the believing church component of Israel.

dqhall said:

Pertaining to the 1948 event, the establishment of the nation of Israel and Bible prophesy:

Amos 9:13-15 (World English Bible -- Public Domain)

13 “Behold, the days come,” says Yahweh,
“that the plowman shall overtake the reaper,
and the one treading grapes him who sows seed;
and sweet wine will drip from the mountains,
and flow from the hills.
14 I will bring my people Israel back from captivity,
and they will rebuild the ruined cities, and inhabit them;
and they will plant vineyards, and drink wine from them.
They shall also make gardens,
and eat their fruit.
15 I will plant them on their land,
and they will no more be plucked up out of their land which I have given them,” says Yahweh your God.

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In the New Testament Jesus is Israel along with those who believe in him. This means the entire earth is the land of Israel today. Not just a small segment of Palestine. And Israel (Jesus and the church) fill the earth (the land) today.

LittleLambofJesus said:

Conversation from another thread:

Who believes we are in the latter days and that the Rapture will happen in our lifetime?
Discuss............

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Along the same lines, I would like to see you create another pole thread regarding Jerusalem 1967 back in the hands of the Jews as their capital city - as a critical element of bible prophecy.

I was surprised by the results of this pole, that there were 17 no's and 18 yes's. I would have thought the number of yes's would far out weigh the no's.

Well, to them who believe that the Church has become Israel, 1948 has to be denied because it conflicts with that doctrine.

The facts are, however, that Israel is a nation again in 1948, with Jews coming from the nations back into the land to fulfill Ezekiel 38-39 as a requirement for the Gog/Magog event.

Reality is that Israel is a nation again, one nation, no longer divided as distinct northern and southern nations.

To deny it, is like denying the sun in the sky, saying it is a figment of one's imagination, doesn't really exist. But some people have to, because Israel a nation again in 1948 conflicts with core doctrinal beliefs.

Douggg said:

Well, to them who believe that the Church has become Israel, 1948 has to be denied because it conflicts with that doctrine.

The facts are, however, that Israel is a nation again in 1948, with Jews coming from the nations back into the land to fulfill Ezekiel 38-39 as a requirement for the Gog/Magog event.

Reality is that Israel is a nation again, one nation, no longer divided as distinct northern and southern nations.

To deny it, is like denying the sun in the sky, saying it is a figment of one's imagination, doesn't really exist. But some people have to, because Israel a nation again in 1948 conflicts with core doctrinal beliefs.

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You need to study circumcision and learn about the role it played in making one a physical Jew and a physical member of Israel. And then consider Jesus abolished it on the cross.

Copperhead said:

I am convinced that Yeshua was talking about the Temple, not the whole house of Israel. The religious leadership rejected the Lord so now the Lord's House is now their house as the Lord is departing it. His comments on this was given at the Temple area. And to make the point, in Matthew 24:1 Yeshua departs from the Temple area after delivering these comments.

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Jesus, Peter, James, John, and Andrew, were Jews from Israel. Paul was a Jew from Tarsus (Asia Minor). Paul's coworker Barnabas was a Cypriot Jew. God could not have rejected all of Israel, but saved a few.

"Many are called, few are chosen." Matthew 24:14

Hi LLOJ,

Thanks for your response. You replied:

LittleLambofJesus said:

Excellent! Just as Yahweh raised up Pharaoh to show His power thru him, so did God raise the Jews up to show His power thru them.

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That's pretty much it. God called a man by the name of Abram, who at the time, was living in Haran. Why in His omniscience He chose Abram over all the other people to come from Noah's line, we can't really know. He was of the line of Shem, who was a direct descendant of Noah, and we do know that Noah asked a special blessing upon Shem for his part in covering Noah's nakedness. Beyond that, there doesn't seem to be any particular reason that God would have chosen Abram over all the other children of Noah, but He did. We do know, of course, that God knows the heart and so God may well have known that, of all the children of Noah, Abram would be the most diligent to walk with Him.

Anyway, God called Abram to leave his family and to walk with Him. To go to the land of Canaan. On that journey, and once he settled in Canaan, as time passed, God made a number of covenants with Abram. We need to understand that this is the beginning of God's working out His plan of salvation. God knows the beginning from the end. Therefore, we can be safe in understanding that when God called Abram, He already had a plan of action and knew how that plan would unfold and how it would be accomplished.

So, Abram became Abraham and he walked with God and had a child through whom God also continued working out His great and merciful plan of His salvation. The child of blessing, the one promised to Abraham, was Isaac. Isaac begat Jacob and then Jacob begat 12 sons. These 12 sons became the sons of Israel and the blueprint for the beginning nation of Israel. However, all through this God was continuing His covenant with Abraham. That Abraham would have uncountable descendants and that they would be a blessing upon all of the earth.

What is that blessing to all the earth? They were going to write down the plan, so that people would know what was the way they should go. Then they were also going to fulfill that plan which would culminate in the final sacrifice for sin...Jesus' death. According to the Scriptures, all of that was planned long before it came to pass. David wrote of the suffering Savior. Many of the other prophets of God also wrote of events that would happen in the Savior's life, so that we would recognize his coming. Even Jesus' first public teaching began with his pronouncement of Isaiah's prophecy of the servant who was there to bind up the wounds and heal the sick. Jesus tried his very best to make God's people understand who he was, but their hearts were hard.

They had established a religious organization and they thought it was based on the will and teachings of God, but like so many of us even today, our heats are hard when it comes to learning and understanding the things of God. But understand please that from the very day that God called Abram out of Haran, Jesus was going to die. That was God's plan from the very beginning and He worked out His plan upon the earth through His people. That included the act of killing the sacrificial Lamb of God that God's salvation might come to all of the earth.

It was all planned and it was all prepared by God and accomplished through His people that He built from the loins of Abram.

Now, this should certainly not cause the believer to despise or hate the Jews. A believer should actually be thankful that they were faithful in accomplishing the work for which God raised them up to accomplish. Despite their continued rebellion and lack of obedience to God in the many, many other things that God asked of them, they did get the plan finished. So no, it wasn't the Romans who killed Jesus. It was our sin that brought about the necessity of his death and it was carried out with God's full approval through God's people. It was God's plan that he should give his life as a ransom for many and God used His people to see to it that it was done.

However, will the lost of the world despise the Jews and call them murderers for their part in God's great and merciful plan of salvation which they don't even understand? Sure! The lost world is never going to get it. That's why they are lost. They have no understanding of the things of God. When Jesus looked up to the heavens as he was drawing his final breaths before his death and declared, "it is finished!", it was this plan that God had begun in the days of Abram that was finished. It was God's plan being worked out throughout some 1500 years of Jewish history that was finished. It wasn't the earth that was finished or life on the earth that was finished. It was God's great and merciful plan of salvation that was finished. The Scriptures declaring all of God's truth and explaining all the work that had brought Jesus to that cross had been written through the work of God's people and now the final part, the most integral part of God's salvation, was being finished. As Jesus died on that cross, the plan of God's salvation was set full and complete before all of mankind. It is finished!

Now, God sets before us this great finished plan through which He has provided a way that we might return to Him and have eternal life with Him. He waits patiently. According to Peter, this patient waiting is allowing time for some to come to understand that finished plan of salvation and come to understand and accept it as the only way by which we may gain eternal life. Yes, the Jews killed Jesus because that was always God's plan and He raised them up to accomplish this task for our salvation.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

Lulav said:

I guess that means that His mother Miriam, his brothers, his disciples, his Apostles were all in on it, right?

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Hi lulav,

Well, people aren't that smart or omniscient. Yes, everyone had their little bit part in bringing about God's great plan of salvation, but they didn't any of them realize at the time how it was all going to end. It was only after it was all done that we can look back and see the thread of God's hand in all that came to pass and how that thread leads from Abram to Jesus. That's just the way humans are. This is why the plan couldn't be accomplished until the old covenant Scriptures were complete. We humans are not a particularly bright bunch. Especially when it comes to understanding the things of God. So God had to get it all written down for us first.

So, I wouldn't agree that any of them were 'in on it'. It wasn't really a matter of them being 'in on it'. They just each had their part to play in God's plan of salvation and despite their repeated and near constant rebellion to the yoke of God, they did complete the plan for which God called them to do. As I say, if one reads the prophecies of the old covenant, there shouldn't be any surprise that it all worked out as it did. There shouldn't be any surprise to the born again believer that God used His people to work out the completion of His plan upon the earth. It was for this very purpose that God called Abram.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

LittleLambofJesus said:

Conversation from another thread:

Who believes we are in the latter days and that the Rapture will happen in our lifetime?
Discuss............

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Any return of the Jews to their homeland is a fulfilment of the prophecies that say this will happen. But the real sign of the end is the growth of the messianic Jewish community around the world but especially in Israel and the USA. Messianic Jewish communities still existed until about the fourth century in the Roman empire and elsewhere , despite the obliteration of Jerusalem, but they mainly died out after that and the biblical balance (James v Romans) between Jews and Gentiles in the church was lost for 14 centuries and with that the distinctive identity of Jews for Jesus praying for a return to the land God gave them. So we are moving back to the situation of the early church in Israel and hopefully this time beyond that to the salvation of the Jews which is also prophesied in scripture.

The Byzantines never encouraged a Jewish identity during the centuries of their Christian dominance. The Crusaders imposed a Christian Kingdom in Jersualem, they massacred those Jews who would not convert to Jesus but they also did not allow for a Jewish identity to thrive. The British were too preoccupied with global events, oil and the threat of bankruptcy to push any kind of serious pro Jewish identity. So the Jewish state of Israel and the growth of Messianic Jewish churches inside that is the first time this has happened in 2000 years.

So these are exciting times and there is good reason to suspect we may be entering the last mile before the end.

The kingdom of Israel is a kingdom, not a democracy. If you haven't brought back the kingdom, then you haven't brought back ancient Israel. David was specifically promised that his line would reign over Israel forever. Do you see that happening in what is called Israel, today? Is there any chance of it happening? No, but we do have a king from the line of David who rules over spiritual Israel, and his name is Jesus.

jgr said:

Matthew 23:38 Greek

3624 [e]
oikos
οἶκος
house
N-NMS

οἶκος ὑμῶν, of the city of Jerusalem, Matthew 23:38; Luke 13:35.

A reference to the ultimate destruction of the entire city in 70 AD.

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It can mean a singular house, a nation or people, etc. You have applied it to the city. I applied it to the house of the Lord. I am not incorrect in what I stated. did you actually read the 3624 link you provided?

OldWiseGuy said:

How many tribes returned to Palestine in 1948?

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Zero.

Dave L said:

Remember, Paul says he removed the unbelievers in Romans 11 leaving only the believing church component of Israel.

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I have some doubt you actually have read Romans 11. I see that Israel has had a blindness until the fulness of the gentiles be brought in. I see the gifts and calling of Yahweh on the Hebrew people as being irrevocable. All in Romans 11. And it also states that those who do believe should not boast against the Israelites that don't believe.

Dave L said:

In the New Testament Jesus is Israel along with those who believe in him. This means the entire earth is the land of Israel today. Not just a small segment of Palestine. And Israel (Jesus and the church) fill the earth (the land) today.

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The Torah requirement for any matter to be established, it must be proven on the testimony of two witnesses. The Bereans of Acts 17 showed us how that is applied. Any doctrine espoused must be confirmed by the two witnesses.... OT and NT. So for you assertion to be true, you must prove from both OT and NT that Israel now comprises the entirety of the planet, and no longer applies to merely the land promised to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

nonaeroterraqueous said:

The kingdom of Israel is a kingdom, not a democracy. If you haven't brought back the kingdom, then you haven't brought back ancient Israel. David was specifically promised that his line would reign over Israel forever. Do you see that happening in what is called Israel, today? Is there any chance of it happening? No, but we do have a king from the line of David who rules over spiritual Israel, and his name is Jesus.

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Not so fast.

British Royals have Jewish ancestors