Do Sabbath Keepers KEEP the Sabbath?

ace of hearts

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Brother, I am not saved by obeying the law, I am saved by the faith that is shown by obeying the law. The difference with Jesus as our high priest is that even if I do not obey the law perfectly, I continue to show faith in my effort to do it and God is working through the Holy Spirit in me, a growth to obey Him better as my faith grows with the understanding of His word. United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
If you don't keep the law do you retain your salvation?
 
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guevaraj

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Who did God give the sabbath to?
Brother, you have asked the right question! God gave everyone the Sabbath at the beginning.

By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done. (Genesis 2:2-3 NIV)​

We must "remember" that we are to keep the Sabbath holy because God made it holy at the beginning.

Remember
the Sabbath day by keeping it holy
. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. (Exodus 20:8-11 NIV)​

It is an acknowledgment of our relationship with God, the creator, when you "remember" that we must keep the Sabbath holy because He made the Sabbath holy at the beginning. God should not have to demand it from us through a covenant, if we "remember" that we should keep the Sabbath holy because He made it holy at the beginning. United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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guevaraj

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If you don't keep the law do you retain your salvation?
Brother, this is the only other way to gain salvation without needing to obey God.

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” (Matthew 25:31-46 NIV)
The good Samaritan, not being of the house of God, can be saved by his treatment of his neighbor. Like him you must feed the hungry, give water to the thirsty, invite in the stranger, give clothes to the needy, look after the sick and visit those in prison. In my own words, I prefer to obey the law to be saved by faith in God than to have to do those other things without rest in the promises of God. Like the good Samaritan, you must be good to be saved without obeying God. On the other hand, you do not really have to be good to be saved by obeying God, you do good things not because of your own goodness, but because you follow someone who is good. United in the hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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ace of hearts

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Brother, you have asked the right question! God gave everyone the Sabbath at the beginning.

By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done. (Genesis 2:2-3 NIV)​

We must "remember" that we are to keep the Sabbath holy because God made it holy at the beginning.

Remember
the Sabbath day by keeping it holy
. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. (Exodus 20:8-11 NIV)​

It is an acknowledgment of our relationship with God, the creator, when you "remember" that we must keep the Sabbath holy because He made the Sabbath holy at the beginning. God should not have to demand it from us through a covenant, if we "remember" that we should keep the Sabbath holy because He made it holy at the beginning. United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
God did no such thing as giving the sabbath to all mankind. The word "sabbath" doesn't appear until Ex 16. God addressed other issues but not the sabbath. God didn't take a periodic rest and begin working again. God permanently ceased working in relation to creation. It's wonderful to stop and look at creation. I live in the country on an acreage. I can see robins by the hundred on my property. I have deer, turkeys and other wild life. I can watch the trees leaf out. It amazing to see a leaf grow.

Now if every one observes the sabbath explain how it can be special (different for Israel). And explain there is no mention of the sabbath until Ex 16. God told Noah he could eat anything after the flood, but no mention of the sabbath. Remember its importance. God provided a rainbow to remember the flood and it wouldn't happen ever a gain, but not a word about the sabbath. What is the visible evidence of the sabbath? None to be found.

How many days did you work of substance last week? Most likely 5. Did you use electricity Saturday? Who give you the right to condemn another for sin and take advantage of them? I want to see the verse that says you can require another to sin for your convenience.

Jesus is my rest and is the rest of God Israel couldn't enter into.
 
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guevaraj

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God did no such thing as giving the sabbath to all mankind.

Brother, the key question is when was the Sabbath “made”? In this next passage, Jesus reveals that the Sabbath was "made" for man at the beginning when God blessed the seventh day and "made" it holy.

Then he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. (Mark 2:27 NIV)​

God has been growing us to obey more and more and did not expect everything He wants us to obey from the beginning. For example, now with Jesus, not only the act is sin, but the thoughts that lead to the act are also sin. Of course, these thoughts were sin before God made them a target, but God had not provided us with the proper means to deal with them until after Jesus. Now we are required more then what was required of Israel before Jesus with the 10 commandments, sin used to be only the external act, but now it has also become the internal thoughts that lead to the act. That is more demanding, approaching the origin of the problem before it surfaces, making itself visible to others by the act itself. God showed us externally with the animals in the earthly temple what He will do through the Holy Spirit and Jesus within us with tighter and tighter loops to recognize sin and obtain forgiveness to eliminate sin at the source.

Jesus is my rest and is the rest of God Israel couldn't enter into.

With Jesus as our high priest: from awareness of sin to gaining forgiveness there is zero wait time, giving us immediate rest from the guilt of having sinned. Immediate forgiveness compared to the slow way forgiveness was obtained in the past with the animal sacrifices. The rest that we gain with Jesus in the heavenly temple is a faster internal loop for the forgiveness of sin compared to the slow external forgiveness with the animals in the earthly temple. This zero-wait time allows us to deal with more sin faster then was possible before, that is why Jesus demands more from us than He demanded of us in the past, adding the thoughts that lead to the act as well as the act itself. If the earthly temple was in constant use with the death of so many animals, how much more should we be turning to God for the forgiveness of sinful thoughts besides acts. No wonder people want to remove the law entirely, removing the law means no awareness of sin, that is even a better substitute for God’s rest than what God provided with Jesus as our high priest, unfortunately the substitute does nothing to remove sin, it only removes the law that exposes the sin still in us. United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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Shimshon

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God did no such thing as giving the sabbath to all mankind.
Correct , God gave commands for Israel to have control of the Sabbath. And Jesus doesn't teach that it was now given to others outside of Israel. Nor does he teach that the Sabbath was commanded to all mankind in Mark 2, in fact just the opposite.
Jesus reveals that the Sabbath was "made" for man at the beginning when God blessed the seventh day and "made" it holy.
Then he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.
28 So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”
Mankind was not made for the Sabbath. The Sabbath was made for man to rule over it, not for it to rule over mankind. So too the Son of man is to rule over the Sabbath. Having received authority over ALL things. Matthew 28:18 Mark 2:10

Yet your SDA doctrine teaches the complete opposite. That the Sabbath was to rule over all mankind from creation.
 
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guevaraj

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Jesus doesn't teach that it was now given to others outside of Israel.
Brother, are you Israeli? I have found the oldest tradition adapted by Christians around the world, a tradition present in Judaism. According to Genesis, the first Sabbath made holy by God was from morning to morning and Israel remembers to keep holy that first Sabbath by beginning 12 hours before its seventh local day of the week, mind you, by direct instructions from God in Leviticus. That means that the Sabbath was made holy in the time zone of Eden and doing the same thing done in Israel in any other place, like here in the united states, is a tradition in contradiction with the word of God. Here in the united states the Sabbath starts 17 hours before our seventh local day, with Israel as our example beginning 12 hours before its seventh local day of the week. The Sabbath is united worldwide, when it starts in Israel it starts everywhere else simultaneously at different hours depending on your location. United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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Greengardener

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Good question. I wonder if all the non-Jewish Sabbatarians refrain from the 37 categories of work enumerated in the Talmud? I was once fostered in the home of Seventh Day Adventists. Their son had his own car. He and I were taking some young ladies home from church one Sabbath, there was some problem with the car so we went to his home and he was trying to fix the problem when his father came home. His father went ballistic and told his son to take the father's car and take the young ladies home. That was 60+ years ago I don't recall any other Sabbath related issues.
I once worked with a retired NY city police officer. When he retired he was the negotiator who worked the NYC bank robbery on which the movie "Dog Day Afternoon." was based. He once told me that when he was a young foot patrolman working in the Jewish neighborhoods it was not unusual for Jewish housewives to come down on Friday afternoons after sunset and get the Goy policeman to come up and turn off their stoves because they forgot and they couldn't even turn the stove off.
My gentile family visited a synagogue, and the ladies sat in a different area from the men. My daughters and I noticed the men were waving their head coverings now and then, and the room was rather warm. We also noticed when one of the leaders came over, spoke to my husband/their Dad and Dad walked out with him. Later we learned it was to flip the AC switch. I don't remember if it was something they forgot or whether it was an unexpected burst of hot weather. We laughed it off. It's amusing to study where humans draw lines.
 
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1stcenturylady

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My gentile family visited a synagogue, and the ladies sat in a different area from the men. My daughters and I noticed the men were waving their head coverings now and then, and the room was rather warm. We also noticed when one of the leaders came over, spoke to my husband/their Dad and Dad walked out with him. Later we learned it was to flip the AC switch. I don't remember if it was something they forgot or whether it was an unexpected burst of hot weather. We laughed it off. It's amusing to study where humans draw lines.

Unfortunately by having someone "within their gates" do the "work", they break the commandment.

“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
 
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Greengardener

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Sabbath food gathering, travel and load bearing restrictions seem to be biblical.

Matthew 12:1-2
At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. 2 When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, “Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.”

Acts 1:12
Then the apostles returned to Jerusalem from the hill called the Mount of Olives, a Sabbath day’s walk from the city.

John 5:10
and so the Jewish leaders said to the man who had been healed, “It is the Sabbath; the law forbids you to carry your mat.”

Jeremiah 17:27
But if you do not obey me to keep the Sabbath day holy by not carrying any load as you come through the gates of Jerusalem on the Sabbath day, then I will kindle an unquenchable fire in the gates of Jerusalem that will consume her fortresses.’”
I like that Jesus gave the Pharisees back an even harder example to show them how far they were missing the point by criticizing the disciples for eating a handful which wasn't an unlawful act since they weren't harvesting a fieldful, just eating the handful they were allowed to have as they walked through the field. Jesus answered to the tune of, well what about David. He REALLY did an unlawful act, eating the priests' bread along with the men with him. What a wonderful illustration! David's eating didn't change the rule about the priest's bread: but one would wonder whether grace to eat it was extended graciously for hungry men or whether it later cost the priest his life.

And one would wonder whether carrying a small mat would be equivalent to carrying a load of merchandise through the city wall. The first must have been OK because Jesus said to do it. The second must have not been OK because God said not to do it, and somehow, those extremes help me to delineate the intent of the sabbath more than whether my behaviors meet whatever checklist I develop about the sabbath. We are always tempted to make a list to see if we can approve our own behaviors, sometimes to see if we can catch the other guy in not meeting up. It appears to me that Sabbath keeping has been fraught with this proclivity.
 
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Greengardener

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Unfortunately by having someone "within their gates" do the "work", they break the commandment.

“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
Absolutely! That's what we were laughing about, the complications of human reasoning that would allow anyone with that entrustment of the scriptures and that knowledge of the scriptures to allow that kind of overstepping and think it was justified. We all miss the point far too often!
 
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Saint Steven

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I like that Jesus gave the Pharisees back an even harder example to show them how far they were missing the point by criticizing the disciples for eating a handful which wasn't an unlawful act since they weren't harvesting a fieldful, just eating the handful they were allowed to have as they walked through the field. Jesus answered to the tune of, well what about David. He REALLY did an unlawful act, eating the priests' bread along with the men with him. What a wonderful illustration! David's eating didn't change the rule about the priest's bread: but one would wonder whether grace to eat it was extended graciously for hungry men or whether it later cost the priest his life.

And one would wonder whether carrying a small mat would be equivalent to carrying a load of merchandise through the city wall. The first must have been OK because Jesus said to do it. The second must have not been OK because God said not to do it, and somehow, those extremes help me to delineate the intent of the sabbath more than whether my behaviors meet whatever checklist I develop about the sabbath. We are always tempted to make a list to see if we can approve our own behaviors, sometimes to see if we can catch the other guy in not meeting up. It appears to me that Sabbath keeping has been fraught with this proclivity.
I think you are misunderstanding what these texts are saying.

Gathering food on the Sabbath is a clear violation. This was established when the Sabbath was introduced in Exodus chapter sixteen. They gathered for six days. No gathering (for personal or family use) was to be done on the seventh day.

Furthermore, Jesus agreed with those that accused his disciples of doing what was unlawful. The example of David and his companions (a self-incriminating statement) was doing was not lawful for them to do. The example of the priests was a desecration of the Sabbath. And in reference to mat-carrying, no work OF ANY KIND is allowed on the Sabbath according to the law. Yet Jesus commanded it. What does this tell us about what was becoming of the law? It seems that Jesus was deconstructing it as he went.

The most basic violation of Sabbath is work of any kind. What did Jesus say in that regard?

John 5:16-18
So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. 17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
 
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1stcenturylady

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I think you are misunderstanding what these texts are saying.

Gathering food on the Sabbath is a clear violation. This was established when the Sabbath was introduced in Exodus chapter sixteen. They gathered for six days. No gathering (for personal or family use) was to be done on the seventh day.

Furthermore, Jesus agreed with those that accused his disciples of doing what was unlawful. The example of David and his companions (a self-incriminating statement) was doing was not lawful for them to do. The example of the priests was a desecration of the Sabbath. And in reference to mat-carrying, no work OF ANY KIND is allowed on the Sabbath according to the law. Yet Jesus commanded it. What does this tell us about what was becoming of the law? It seems that Jesus was deconstructing it as he went.

The most basic violation of Sabbath is work of any kind. What did Jesus say in that regard?

John 5:16-18
So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. 17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

We are just discussing what the old law meant, not what it is now.

I was wrong about one thing, they could cook on the Sabbath. You see women never get a day off! ;) However, in Jerusalem today that isn't the case, as they won't turn the knobs on the stove on and off.

But does that apply to the weekly Sabbath or just other holy convocations such as the feast of unleavened bread? It is so confusing to me.

Exodus 12:16b
No manner of work shall be done on them; but that which everyone must eat—that only may be prepared by you.

But is that just the placing on the table the unleavened bread, or the baking of the unleavened bread. What does "prepared" mean? I suppose the owner of the house is exempt, just as the priests are exempt of the duties in the temple. It is the hired help and the rest of the family and cattle that can't do anything.
 
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Saint Steven

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We are just discussing what the old law meant, not what it is now.

I was wrong about one thing, they could cook on the Sabbath. You see women never get a day off! ;) However, in Jerusalem today that isn't the case, as they won't turn the knobs on the stove on and off.

But does that apply to the weekly Sabbath or just other holy convocations such as the feast of unleavened bread? It is so confusing to me.

Exodus 12:16b
No manner of work shall be done on them; but that which everyone must eat—that only may be prepared by you.

But is that just the placing on the table the unleavened bread, or the baking of the unleavened bread. What does "prepared" mean? I suppose the owner of the house is exempt, just as the priests are exempt of the duties in the temple. It is the hired help and the rest of the family and cattle that can't do anything.
The law is the law.
There isn't an old "the law" and a new "the law".

Exodus twelve deals with the original Passover, before the Exodus.
But that is where the feast is established. Note that this is before Exodus sixteen where the Sabbath was introduced. The law established for the Sabbath was no gathering or preparing. - He said to them, “This is what the Lord commanded: ‘Tomorrow is to be a day of sabbath rest, a holy sabbath to the Lord. So bake what you want to bake and boil what you want to boil. Save whatever is left and keep it until morning.’” - Exodus 16:23

Also interesting to note is the lack of mention of the wife in the Sabbath commandment in Exodus twenty or Deuteronomy five. Sons, daughters, servants, animals, and even foreigners are listed. I take this to mean that the wife was included in the words "you" and "your" with the husband.

Deuteronomy 5:12-15
“Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the Lord your God has commanded you. 13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns, so that your male and female servants may rest, as you do. 15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.
 
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Shimshon

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Exodus twelve deals with the original Passover, before the Exodus.
But that is where the feast is established. Note that this is before Exodus sixteen where the Sabbath was introduced.
And please note that Exodus 16 is before leviticus and dueteronomy which encompass most depictions of how the sabbath was commanded to Israel as a nation, and carried out.

Could you please show me where God defined the exact command NOT to gather even for your personal consumption AFTER the wilderness experience?

If we use your logic, which is very much like the thoughts of the Pharisees, we could also assume that all who walked ...how far?... would be guilty of breaking the shabbat? Where do you define 'work'? We know the Jewish leaders defined it for themselves, and THAT is what Jesus was being accused of breaking. The tradition of the elders. They saw him as breaking the shabbat, but Messiah knew the truth. The father works, and the son works, even now. It is not unlawful to help someone in need on the shabbat. Nor is it unlawful to feed yourself. It's not 'servile work'. Which was the point.

Further, you mention David and the show bread. How is it you focus on the 'desecrate the sabbath' part but ignore completely the fact that in the next breath Messiah pointed out 'yet they are innocent'? As well as the fact that it was the priestly 'duty' to work on the shabbat. Was David not a priest?
 
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FEZZILLA

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No--we do not say that!
So Sunday observing Christians, having the mark of the beast, is not sin? We can have the mark of the beast and still not sin?
 
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1stcenturylady

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The law is the law.
There isn't an old "the law" and a new "the law".

Exodus twelve deals with the original Passover, before the Exodus.
But that is where the feast is established. Note that this is before Exodus sixteen where the Sabbath was introduced. The law established for the Sabbath was no gathering or preparing. - He said to them, “This is what the Lord commanded: ‘Tomorrow is to be a day of sabbath rest, a holy sabbath to the Lord. So bake what you want to bake and boil what you want to boil. Save whatever is left and keep it until morning.’” - Exodus 16:23

Also interesting to note is the lack of mention of the wife in the Sabbath commandment in Exodus twenty or Deuteronomy five. Sons, daughters, servants, animals, and even foreigners are listed. I take this to mean that the wife was included in the words "you" and "your" with the husband.

Deuteronomy 5:12-15
“Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the Lord your God has commanded you. 13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns, so that your male and female servants may rest, as you do. 15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

Do you keep the 4th law? Its not Sunday. Its very specific.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Are those with the mark of the beast saved?

No, but the mark of the beast has nothing to do with celebrating Sunday. Sunday is not a law. It is not the Sabbath. You must be SDA.
 
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FEZZILLA

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Question: Should I cut this verse out of my Bible and throw it away?

"And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising" (Isaiah 60:3).

I was reading it and it didn't quite support the SDA view so should I cut it out of my Bible and paste something from Ellen White in it's place instead?

Should I also cut this verse out as it assumes Ellen White is wrong?

"Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to finish His work" (John 4:34).

This verse assumes something happened after creation...something like the fall of man...which doesn't seem to agree with E.G.White's view of an untainted creation with no need for a Savior. The verse says "finish His work" but wasn't that work finished on the Sabbath day? So what work needed to be finished that wasn't finished?

I guess I'll have to cut that verse out of my Bible and paste in its place an Ellen White verse instead.
 
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