CAN A BELIEVER FALL AWAY FROM GOD AND BECOME AN UNBELIEVER?

LoveGodsWord · May 25, 2019

Grip Docility said:
Sin is “Missing the Mark”
God is the Mark...Repentance... Change one’s mind lowliness of mind, humility

God's WORD defines sin as breaking any one of God's 10 commandments *1 JOHN 3:4; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:10-11; ROMANS 3:20. "MISSING THE MARK" is not keeping them.

Presbyterian Continuist · May 25, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Why would I need to? It is God's WORD and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 3:4. If your trying to teach God's LAW is abolished however then your teaching another Gospel *MATTHEW 5:17-20.

Give me your exegesis of the Scripture I quoted.

LoveGodsWord · May 25, 2019

Oscarr said:
Give me your exegesis of the Scripture I quoted.

Why and what scripture? Do you not know how to study God's WORD for yourself?

JEREMIAH 17 [5], Thus said the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusts in man, and makes flesh his arm, and whose heart departs from the LORD. [6], For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good comes; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited.[7], Blessed is the man that trusts in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is. [8], For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreads out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat comes, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit.

We should not look to man to learn God's WORD when God wants to be our teacher *HEBREWS 8:11; JOHN 14:26. Those who look to others for the truth of God's WORD may not find it.

Hammster · May 25, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Are we literally sheep in your view. Or was this a parable about Gods children and the children of the devil? How do we know if we are Gods Children or the children of the devil *1 JOHN 2:1-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-10?

In the context of John 10 (let’s stick with this text. I know you have a habit of running away from the ones that don’t fit your theology) we are sheep. He is the Shepherd. It was an analogy that was understood by the people. The relationship was such that sheep could distinguish their shepherd’s voice from others. David even paints a good picture in Psalm 23. And when sheep wandered, did the shepherd just say, “well, they have free will”? No. He went after them and disciplined them.

Here’s the difference between our approaches. You focus on rules (law). Do this, don’t do that, or else. I, correctly, focus on relationship (gospel). One of our views is burdensome. One of our views is freeing.

Hammster · May 25, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Your response..

Who says God's Sheep are always His Sheep? God's Sheep according to the scriptures are only those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW Him.

JOHN 10:26-27 [26], But you believe not, because you are not of my sheep, as I said to you.
[27], My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

If we do not BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD (present tense) we are not His Sheep. THat is why the scriptures teach we must endure temptation to the end BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD to receive eternal life *MATTHEW 10:22; JAMES 1:12

Notice that He doesn’t say that they aren’t His sheep because they don’t believe. Just the opposite. They don’t believe because they are not His sheep. That’s a big distinction.

Hammster · May 25, 2019

Jack871 said:
True. But did not Paul also say that he struggled with sin in a very real sense? The verses are well known. Romans 7:18-20 …18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh; for I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For I do not do the good I want to do. Instead, I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do. 20And if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.…
So while Paul is NOT saying that we should all just go out and willfully sin, he is saying that it can be a real struggle even for a believer. Anyone who says that he is 100% sinless from the moment that he/she is born again is full of beans. Christ died a brutal death on the cross for our salvation...not just from original sin inherited from Adam but our sin here and now in this life...the one in which we struggle.
It's a matter of heart... God knows the heart of a sincere follower of Christ. No one in this life can judge the innermost heart of a man.

Paul struggled. He didn’t say “oh, it doesn’t matter. I’m saved so I can do whatever”.

Presbyterian Continuist · May 25, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Why and what scripture? Do you not know how to study God's WORD for yourself?

JEREMIAH 17 [5], Thus said the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusts in man, and makes flesh his arm, and whose heart departs from the LORD. [6], For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good comes; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited.[7], Blessed is the man that trusts in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is. [8], For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreads out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat comes, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit.

We should not look to man to learn God's WORD when God wants to be our teacher *HEBREWS 8:11; JOHN 14:26. Those who look to others for the truth of God's WORD may not find it.

You are the one making the claim, and I am suggesting you do an exegesis of the Scripture to find out what Jesus and Paul really meant from the First Century mind-set and culture, and how their listeners and readers would have understood them. That means you would have to ask what main point that these two were making when they mentioned divorce and remarriage, and whether the latter was the main point they were making, or not.

Then you would have to determine hermeneutically how strictly you would want to enforce divorce/remarriage issues on 21st Century believers, especially if it was not the main point that Jesus and Paul were making at the time.

I don't have to do an exegesis because I have already done so and I know what the answer is. But I think you might need to fine the answer if you are going to continue any type of strict teaching about divorce and remarriage, because you might end up twisting their words and teaching error.

Presbyterian Continuist · May 25, 2019

Hammster said:
In the context of John 10 (let’s stick with this text. I know you have a habit of running away from the ones that don’t fit your theology) we are sheep. He is the Shepherd. It was an analogy that was understood by the people. The relationship was such that sheep could distinguish their shepherd’s voice from others. David even paints a good picture in Psalm 23. And when sheep wandered, did the shepherd just say, “well, they have free will”? No. He went after them and disciplined them.

Here’s the difference between our approaches. You focus on rules (law). Do this, don’t do that, or else. I, correctly, focus on relationship (gospel). One of our views is burdensome. One of our views is freeing.

Those under the Law would say of an action, "Is this right?" Those who have been saved by grace apart from the Law would say of an action. "Is it loving and/or beneficial?' That is the difference.

LoveGodsWord · May 25, 2019

Oscarr said:
You are the one making the claim, and I am suggesting you do an exegesis of the Scripture to find out what Jesus and Paul really meant from the First Century mind-set and culture, and how their listeners and readers would have understood them. That means you would have to ask what main point that these two were making when they mentioned divorce and remarriage, and whether the latter was the main point they were making, or not.

Then you would have to determine hermeneutically how strictly you would want to enforce divorce/remarriage issues on 21st Century believers, especially if it was not the main point that Jesus and Paul were making at the time.

I don't have to do an exegesis because I have already done so and I know what the answer is. But I think you might need to fine the answer if you are going to continue any type of strict teaching about divorce and remarriage, because you might end up twisting their words and teaching error.

I do not read God's Word as a book written by man. I do not know what claims you are talking about.

Hammster · May 25, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
I do not read God's Word as a book written by man. I do not know what claims you are talking about.

That would actually explain a lot.

LoveGodsWord · May 25, 2019

Hammster said:
In the context of John 10 (let’s stick with this text. I know you have a habit of running away from the ones that don’t fit your theology) we are sheep.

Sadly your words have no truth in them. Where have I never wanted to discuss Gods' WORD as you claim? I LoveGodsWord

. Aren't you the one who does not address my posts and the scriptures and questions asked of you?

Hammster said:
He is the Shepherd. It was an analogy that was understood by the people. The relationship was such that sheep could distinguish their shepherd’s voice from others. David even paints a good picture in Psalm 23. And when sheep wandered, did the shepherd just say, “well, they have free will”? No. He went after them and disciplined them.

Finally so you agree we are not literally sheep. It's a parable right as stated earlier they defines who God's children are and the children of the devil.

Hammster said:
Here’s the difference between our approaches. You focus on rules (law). Do this, don’t do that, or else. I, correctly, focus on relationship (gospel). One of our views is burdensome. One of our views is freeing.

Well that has no truth in it. My focus is only on JESUS (God's WORD). I love Gods Word. How do we know if we are the children of God or the children of the devil? God's Word knows, do you?

LoveGodsWord · May 25, 2019

Hammster said:
That would actually explain a lot.

Well thankyou. That is your problem then if you view God's Word as a book. I view it as God's WORD written for our admonition which we are to live by every word. It is only to God's WORD I point all because there it is we find JESUS.

LoveGodsWord · May 25, 2019

Hammster said:
Notice that He doesn’t say that they aren’t His sheep because they don’t believe. Just the opposite. They don’t believe because they are not His sheep. That’s a big distinction.

JOHN 10:26-27
[26], But you believe not, because you are not of my sheep, as I said to you.
[27], My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

Notice here that it is those who are God's Sheep BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD v27. Those who do not BELIEVE are not God's Sheep v26

Hope this helps.

Hammster · May 25, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Sadly your words have no truth in them. Where have I never wanted to discuss Gods' WORD as you claim? I LoveGodsWord. Aren't you the one who does not address my posts and the scriptures and questions asked of you?

Finally so you agree we are not literally sheep. It's a parable right as stated earlier they defines who God's children are and the children of the devil.

Well that has no truth in it. My focus is only on JESUS (God's WORD). I love Gods Word. How do we know if we are the children of God or the children of the devil? God's Word knows, do you?

So your rebuttal is that we aren’t real sheep?

LoveGodsWord · May 25, 2019

Hammster said:
So your rebuttal is that we aren’t real sheep?

Not at all read the post above yours. You did not read it did you. I did notice you did not answer the questions asked of you either. Seems like a habbit with you.

Hammster · May 25, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Well thankyou. That is your problem then if you view God's Word as a book. I view it as God's WORD written for our admonition which we are to live by every word. It is only to God's WORD I point all because there it is we find JESUS.

I understand that there such a thing called hermeneutics. And that includes understanding context.

LoveGodsWord · May 25, 2019

Hammster said:
I understand that there such a thing called hermeneutics. And that includes understanding context.

Indeed that is why I have provided it to you yet you still do not believe or can you show why you do not believe. Does this not worry you?

Hammster · May 25, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
JOHN 10:26-27
[26], But you believe not, because you are not of my sheep, as I said to you.
[27], My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

Notice here that it is those who are God's Sheep BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD v27. Those who do not BELIEVE are not God's Sheep v26

Hope this helps.

Dismissing what I say and just repeat a previous post isn’t helpful.

Jesus states, in v. 26, a reason why they don’t believe. What is that reason?

LoveGodsWord · May 25, 2019

Hammster said:
Dismissing what I say and just repeat a previous post isn’t helpful. Jesus states, in v. 26, a reason why they don’t believe. What is that reason?

Your just repeating yourself brother without addressing the scriptures posted and what they say. v27 descibes who God's Sheep are. They are all those who HEAR God's Voice, BELIEVE and FOLLOW Him.

God's Sheep Hear His Voice (the Word)

Hammster · May 25, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Indeed that is why I have provided it to you yet you still do not believe or can you show why you do not believe. Does this not worry you?

When have you ever provided context? Most often, you just post verses without context.

CAN A BELIEVER FALL AWAY FROM GOD AND BECOME AN UNBELIEVER?

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