Readers take note, untold MILLIONS of believers today know the 70th week is FUTURE.
Readers take note, untold HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS today know that there is no God except Allah, and Muhammad is His prophet.
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Readers take note, untold MILLIONS of believers today know the 70th week is FUTURE.
Up until about 1830 - it's been believed that what John was writing about was atually relevant to the people that he wrote Revelation to back BEFORE 70 A.D.
Do you not see any connection to Revelation and Matthew 23 - especially verse 36?
Matthew 23:36 ~ Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
So your understanding of the 70 weeks looks like this?
Do you see how the premise of this thread is that, if there's a gap in the prophecy of Daniel, then v. 24 becomes false? How can an event occur in a gap of time? Wouldn't the prophetic time clock have begun ticking again with Jesus' crucifixion?
This is the image of the 70 weeks according to the liturgical churches (the non-modern-day theological churches....ie prior to John Darby theology, but continuing):
Verse 24 says "seventy weeks are decreed for your people". A simple rule of interpretation is to let Scripture interpret Scripture. Where in the Bible do you see ANY other example of time being split up? How is it "70 weeks" if there's at least thousands of years in between? And - the common timeline for this futurist belief system is one that I shared in my recent post (with Jesus' crucifixion hanging out in thin air during that gap of time where it's taught that the prophetic time clock paused). How is time "paused" when an event - as critical to our faith, as the crucifixion - occurs?The gap does not nullify verse 24, the problem comes from shifting the meaning of verse 24 so as to make it conflict with the proper viewing of the 70 week prophecy. There is still much prophecy awaiting future fulfillment in addition to the anointing of the Most Holy place. Consummation is what is in view, Israel and Jerusalem's story was not completed in the first century - it will be when Christ returns to establish the kingdom of God.
It was what ALL of Christianity recognized up until the early 1800's when Darby introduced his futurist beliefs. Only then did the schism begin.You are also quoting Daniel 9:27 from a translation that is inaccurate. I have already looked into this view, the Hebrew texts are quite clear. Both the covenant and desolation is not tied to Christ, who is Messiah the Prince. It is tied to the prince who is to come.
A simple rule of interpretation is to let Scripture interpret Scripture...
Verse 24 says "seventy weeks are decreed for your people". A simple rule of interpretation is to let Scripture interpret Scripture. Where in the Bible do you see ANY other example of time being split up? How is it "70 weeks" if there's at least thousands of years in between? And - the common timeline for this futurist belief system is one that I shared in my recent post (with Jesus' crucifixion hanging out in thin air during that gap of time where it's taught that the prophetic time clock paused). How is time "paused" when an event - as critical to our faith, as the crucifixion - occurs?
Jesus was who was anointed (He is the Most Holy Place - the true Temple).
His Kingdom is established. Even He is quoted as saying so:
Luke 17:20-21 ~ The Coming of the KingdomHe is sitting on His rightful throne - the throne of David.
When asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The kingdom of God will not come with observable signs. Nor will people say, ‘Look, here it is,’ or ‘There it is.’ For you see, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”
Acts 2:29-36 ~ "Brethren, I may confidently say to you regarding the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. "And so, because he was a prophet and knew that GOD HAD SWORN TO HIM WITH AN OATH TO SEAT one OF HIS DESCENDANTS ON HIS THRONE, he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that HE WAS NEITHER ABANDONED TO HADES, NOR DID His flesh SUFFER DECAY. "This Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witnesses. "Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear. "For it was not David who ascended into heaven, but he himself says: 'THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD, "SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND, UNTIL I MAKE YOUR ENEMIES A FOOTSTOOL FOR YOUR FEET." ' "Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified."
There is a similar rule that God seems to confirm throughout Scripture that the number "two" is about truth. Personally, I don't consider God "silly".Silly rule.
You let the Holy Spirit interpret scripture.
How can scripture interpret scripture?
Where do people get these ideas from?
Personally, I don't consider God "silly".
iamlamad said: ↑
Readers take note: no one has ever shown us when each trumpet judgment took place. It is impossible because the trumpet judgments are still future.
mkgal1 said: ↑
Up until about 1830 - it's been believed that what John was writing about was atually relevant to the people that he wrote Revelation to back BEFORE 70 A.D.
Do you not see any connection to Revelation and Matthew 23 - especially verse 36?
ThatCanadianDude_88 said: ↑
The gap does not nullify verse 24, the problem comes from shifting the meaning of verse 24 so as to make it conflict with the proper viewing of the 70 week prophecy. There is still much prophecy awaiting future fulfillment in addition to the anointing of the Most Holy place. Consummation is what is in view, Israel and Jerusalem's story was not completed in the first century - it will be when Christ returns to establish the kingdom of God.
mkgal1 said: ↑
Verse 24 says "seventy weeks are decreed for your people". A simple rule of interpretation is to let Scripture interpret Scripture. Where in the Bible do you see ANY other example of time being split up? How is it "70 weeks" if there's at least thousands of years in between? And - the common timeline for this futurist belief system is one that I shared in my recent post (with Jesus' crucifixion hanging out in thin air during that gap of time where it's taught that the prophetic time clock paused). How is time "paused" when an event - as critical to our faith, as the crucifixion - occurs?
You can disagree without being condescending toward another member like you just did.If I may be honest, this is what happens when anyone becomes way too invested in their views, there arises an inability to honestly study and weigh Scripture without any bias or lens.
You are over-spiritualizing the passages in question. The prophecy clearly tells us it pertains to the Holy City and the Sanctuary, and the rest of end-time prophecy abundantly affirms what is going to happen in Jerusalem prior to Christ's return.
You are conflating the spiritual truth of Jesus being the living temple (which is not what is in view here) with the literal sanctuary or "holy place". You are reading a meaning into the text, this is eisegesis.
But it doesn't say in the text that the prince who shall come was responsible for the temple and city destroyed.So it is not a question of whether Jesus destroyed the temple and the city according to verse 26. The prince in verse 26, who was responsible for the temple and city destruction of 70 AD, was not Jesus! It was the Roman "prince". The Roman people came and destroyed the temple and City by 70 AD. Jesus and His people did not destroy the temple.
I agree with that principle.I and others agree with the member. You can disagree without being condescending toward another member like you just did.
Yes, I agree with the chart you displayed, with the 70th week still future. I think that is what scripture shows us. What you are missing is that the 70th week will be TRIGGERED by the rapture that ends the church age. Did you not notice that Paul wrote of the Day of the Lord just three verses after his classic rapture verse in 1 Thes. 4?Up until about 1830 - it's been believed that what John was writing about was actually relevant to the people that he wrote Revelation to back BEFORE 70 A.D.
Do you not see any connection to Revelation and Matthew 23 - especially verse 36?
Matthew 23:36 ~ Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
So your understanding of the 70 weeks looks like this?
Do you see how the premise of this thread is that, if there's a gap in the prophecy of Daniel, then v. 24 becomes false? How can an event occur in a gap of time? Wouldn't the prophetic time clock have begun ticking again with Jesus' crucifixion?
This is the image - below - of the 70 weeks according to the liturgical churches (the non-modern-day theological churches....ie prior to John Darby theology, but continuing):
We are living in what most church people call the age of grace, or the church age. Judgment has NOT COME yet. Go back and read: are there STILL people being martyred? Of course there are. But John wrote that they must wait for their FULL NUMBER. Judgment is not coming until the last church age martyr is killed. That will not happen UNTIL the rapture ends the church age. it is not "cruel" it is GOD.@iamlamad the saints under the altar in Revelation 6:9 were an anguish waiting for the judgment of God (way back around 62 A.D.). You have them STILL waiting - thousands of years later. That seems unusually cruel to me.
Revelation 6:10- ~ And when the Lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony they had upheld. And they cried out in a loud voice, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge those who live on the earth and avenge our blood?”
Not necessarily so: for some time Paul expected Christ's coming in HIS day. For the most part, each generation has believed His coming would be in THEIR day.That means the majority of Jesus' and the apostle's teaching meant very little to their audience, if that were so.
There are MILLIONS of church people today that disagree with you. I am one of them.Quoting from linked article:
The context of the 70 weeks of Daniel prophecy is NOT about the end-times.
The context of the passage is about Daniel’s people, the Jews, who were due to be released from Babylonian captivity, and Daniel had been praying about their future.
In the passage, God told Daniel (through His angel) that He was giving the Jews one last chance to repent of their sins, to reconcile with God, and to prepare for their coming Messiah, who would arrive in the 70th week of the prophecy.
The prophecy of the 70 Weeks of Daniel told the Jews EXACTLY what year the Messiah would appear.
Jesus disciples understood the timing of the prophecy and were expecting Him, as witnessed when Andrew told his brother Simon, “we have found the Messiah.”
Satan used the hard hearts of the Jewish leaders to hide it from them, which caused them to reject Jesus and deliver Him up to be crucified.
To understand the context of the prophecy, read the complete chapter of Daniel 9.
The focus of this study is Daniel 9:27: “And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”
The Covenant of Jesus is a perfect fit with the prophecy of Daniel’s 70 Weeks.
Many modern teachers say that the pronoun ‘he’ represents an end-time antichrist who makes a peace covenant with Israel. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that Antichrist will make, confirm, or break a covenant with anyone, let alone Israel.
The pronoun ‘he’ is referring to the previous noun, ‘prince’, from verse 26.
The prince is Jesus, as the word prince (nagiyd) in verse 26 is the same as in verse 25 which declares the arrival of Messiah the Prince (Jesus).
There are many verses that point to Jesus confirming a covenant during His ministry, which took place during the first half of the 70th Week of Daniel.
‘And He(Jesus) said to them, “For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” Matthew 26:28
In these words we find four things which agree with the prophecy of Daniel 9:27:
~ The 70th Week Of Daniel Covenant DeceptionThese words correspond perfectly with those of the prophecy. “He shall confirm the covenant with many.”
- “the One” who was to confirm the covenant, Jesus the Messiah;
- “the covenant” itself, the renewed covenant made with Abraham;
- that which “confirmed” the covenant, the blood of Christ;
- those who receive the benefits of the covenant, the “many” who believe in Him as their Messiah.
iamlamad said:Notice carefully what this verse does NOT say: 24 Seventy CONTIGUOUS weeks are determined upon thy people ...
There is that expectation down through history. The difference with now is that we have the parable of the fig tree, and Israel being a nation again, and Jerusalem in the hands of the Jews.Not necessarily so: for some time Paul expected Christ's coming in HIS day. For the most part, each generation has believed His coming would be in THEIR day.
Gedge, we have too many signs, two of them very big, that overshadows previous thoughts of them who believe that the 70 weeks are contiguous.The weeks were part of the old Hebrew calendar of that time. A 'week' was like our 'decade' but a bit shorter. So, the people of that time would have understood it to be contiguous.
Calendars don't have gaps.
Except for one significant difference.....waking up to the sight of the Muslim Gold Dome instead of a Temple of God.......Gedge, we have too many signs, two of them very big, that overshadows previous thoughts of them who believe that the 70 weeks are contiguous.
Israel a nation again. 1948
Jerusalem back in the hands of the Jews. 1967
.