- Nov 29, 2018
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What point was Jesus making in the context of what He was saying to the Jews in the passage in Matthew? Was divorce and remarriage His main point, or was it a side point to give an example of His main point. And if it was just a side point to His main point to the Jews, is it really spoken to us, 2000 years later in a totally different culture and mind-set?Hello Brothers and Sisters,
I apologize in advance as I know Divorce and Remarriage is an ongoing topic/debate here. I’ve posted here before regarding my difficult situation and I appreciate all the feedback I received from my fellow Brethren’s. There another aspect to my previous post that I am wondering about and it’s regarding whether my marriage is valid in God’s eyes. I believe I was convicted recently since separating from my spouse that it wasn’t and it was not blessed (see my previous post). However I am fearful to sin and I don’t want to go to hell for iniating divorce which I have already started the process, but could easily stop. I got saved about almost 2 years ago and when I read what Jesus taught I feared my salvation being married to my spouse! I plan to speak with my church counselor and pastor at church about it. However I know that a lot of Christian (Protestant?) churches believe in remarriage but Jesus said No exception— I will go that route (divorce) even if it pains my spouse who is attempting to save the “marriage.” From what I heard, my pastor is also remarried so this scares me as I don’t want to be lead astray by wrong beliefs. Thank you all in advance for reading and responding. So here is my concerns summed up:
What I am struggling with right now is hearing Gods voice on divorcing him. The reason why is because I believe/read he is still married to his previous wife based on Matthew 19:9 and Romans 7:2-3. I have completely gotten rid of any and everything we had together as a “married” couple because based on what I was shown, heard by The Holy Spirit, read in scriptures, and also videos and articles (such as a catholic priest name Erasmus created remarriage and it was wrong), it was something I had with a man who was never my husband to begin with and I’m committing continuous adultery.
Long story short, they were young and married while drunk and did not see each other as husband and wife. They never consummated the marriage and only saw each other a few times afterward. He annulled the marriage shortly after and they never spoke again. Christian Pastors spoken to have said our marriage is real because an annulment means the marriage happened for illigitamate reasons and our vows were conscious and real. My spouse is an unbeliever, I was a “Christian” during our marriage but did not get Saved until a few years ago. We/I are not Catholic so Catholic annulment advice would not help me.
So would it still be valid marriage in God’s eyes if For Example: people do it when on drugs, drunk, a green card, or a gay man and a gay women getting married to trick their family into thinking they’re straight (but have outside relationships) but now one wants to divorce?
Thank you all in advance. This has been eating me up and I am very conflicted. I will also be in prayer on this because I do not know if this is God’s way of saying I am free from a destructive marriage and He’s testing me to see if I will put Him first before my spouse or is this satan seeking to destroy a marriage. I need to know what I need to hear and not what I want to here. Thank you all.
I would not however initiate legal separation at this stage if at all - there is a big difference between divorcing and being divorced.
I would seek the blessing of an elder you trust first (if you have one) then ask him to be there for you as you plan to move on.
I do not have time today to engage on this thread, but quickly wanted to point out two disagreements with this advice. I've observed Carl's posts in the past, and it is clear that he has a tender heart before the Lord. So, I have a lot of respect for Carl, but must take exception with these two points:
With the behaviors this man has shown it is important that she obtain legal separation and divorce protection for her financial well being. She will be pursued for any debts he incurs while they are married even if she is phsyically separated. She has supported him and provided for him for much (all?) of their marriage. He would not have the means to repay his debts and has shown psychopathic behavior against her - definitely he has the capacity to purposefully cause great financial harm to her that could take decades to recover.
In the prior thread I provided some comments about a state issued marriage certificate being extra-Biblical anyway (nowhere does the Bible require one), so taking steps to dissolve the extra-Biblical license in no way should make a difference on your divorce theology, as to whether to consider someone divorced before the Lord, if that is your conscience.
Here again, use caution and test their advice against Scripture. I've been involved in many a case where terrible and unBiblical advice was given to abused women (it's an area many pastors are not expert in), even to the point abused women were pursued for church discipline for separating from an abuser.
Shockingly, I've seen multiple pastors advise abused women that the abuse was their fault because they should have submitted better. Even the (in)famous John Piper advised women to submit to abuse, even if it means being hit, while trying to submissively entreat their husbands to stop abusing them. Unfortunately, secular resources tend to understand the dynamics of abuse and effective responses better than most pastors.
Please use caution with this, and don't accept what a pastor says as truth until you test it out.
Jesus said No exception
I agree. Because Jesus and Paul treated divorce and remarriage as just examples to their main points, there is a lot of information left out in the Scripture. When there is sketchy information about an issue, God expects us to use our own judgment about these matters. He gave us common sense, and in a case of severe domestic violence where a spouse's life is in danger by staying in a marriage, then the common sense decision would be to get out of it.I do not have time today to engage on this thread, but quickly wanted to point out two disagreements with this advice. I've observed Carl's posts in the past, and it is clear that he has a tender heart before the Lord. So, I have a lot of respect for Carl, but must take exception with these two points:
With the behaviors this man has shown it is important that she obtain legal separation and divorce protection for her financial well being. She will be pursued for any debts he incurs while they are married even if she is phsyically separated. She has supported him and provided for him for much (all?) of their marriage. He would not have the means to repay his debts and has shown psychopathic behavior against her - definitely he has the capacity to purposefully cause great financial harm to her that could take decades to recover.
In the prior thread I provided some comments about a state issued marriage certificate being extra-Biblical anyway (nowhere does the Bible require one), so taking steps to dissolve the extra-Biblical license in no way should make a difference on your divorce theology, as to whether to consider someone divorced before the Lord, if that is your conscience.
Here again, use caution and test their advice against Scripture. I've been involved in many a case where terrible and unBiblical advice was given to abused women (it's an area many pastors are not expert in), even to the point abused women were pursued for church discipline for separating from an abuser.
Shockingly, I've seen multiple pastors advise abused women that the abuse was their fault because they should have submitted better. Even the (in)famous John Piper advised women to submit to abuse, even if it means being hit, while trying to submissively entreat their husbands to stop abusing them. Unfortunately, secular resources tend to understand the dynamics of abuse and effective responses better than most pastors.
Please use caution with this, and don't accept what a pastor says as truth until you test it out.
Since Paidiske, a pastor, has chimed in on this thread, I'll clarify to my comments above that I've observed her posts and she is one of those pastors who understands the dynamics of abuse. I've observed that she is a safe resource for abused people with respect to her understanding of how Scripture applies to marital abuse.
Jesus never said that at all. We have to be careful about adding to God's Word. There is a prohibition to it in Proverbs 30:6:Jesus said No exception
If he was drunk when he said his vows the first time (or she was, or both), that was not a valid marriage, because you can't consent when drunk. Which would leave open the possibility for your marriage to be valid.
But even if your marriage is/was valid, that does not require you to endure being abused.
What then if two people agreed to marry for documents only? Wouldn't they still be considered married because they made Vows before God to one another regardless of how they did it?
You are using hermeneutics to try and apply the Scriptures directly to 21st Century Christians, without first doing an exegesis of them to see what Jesus and Paul really meant and how First Century believers would have understood them.Thank you all for your responses. To Oscarr, I am referring to the "exception" clause written in Matthew 19:9 which was written to the Jews vs what was written in Mark and Luke (to Gentiles) which gives no exception. The "except" fornication pertained to the betrothal (engagement) period for Jews so that is why there is "No" exception in Mark and Luke (example Luke 16:18) because Gentiles don't follow the Jewish betrothal ---so that was what I mean't by Jesus saying "no" because when speaking to Gentiles, "no" exception is given. Scripture like Roman 7: 1-3 say marriage is basically "till death do you part." I was concerned based on these scriptures that my marriage was seen as continuous adultery because he had been married before and she is still living (Romans 7).
Christian Pastors have said his other marriage was not a "valid" marriage because it was annulled and they never consummated the marriage. So far, I only received 1 answer here to that. Regardless of the answers, I will still remain separated for a good while from him (based off of my past post) and I thank you all again for your concerns and feedback. I just want to do what is right is God's eye even if it means "divorcing" from a "marriage" that was never one to begin with.
So to clarify what I am asking:
My spouse married someone when he was young while they were drunk and they did not see each other as husband and wife. They never consummated the marriage and only saw each other a few times afterward. He annulled the marriage shortly after and they never spoke again. Christian Pastors spoken to have said our marriage is real because an annulment means the marriage happened for illegitimate reasons and our vows were conscious and real.
But based on what I am interpreting from scripture, he made a Vow regardless of how he did it and God takes that (marriage covenant) seriously. Given this, would a marriage still be a Valid marriage in God’s eyes if For Example:
people do it when on drugs, drunk, a green card, or a gay man and a gay women getting married to trick their family into thinking they’re straight (but have outside relationships)?
Would it still be a valid marriage if these people in the example I given above said Vows before God but didn't mean it (such as a green card card marriage, or people getting drunk and running off to Vegas) and then divorced their spouse and marry another?
Thank you all again.