LDS John 10:33

ViaCrucis

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It is interesting that you ignored every scripture that I gave you that proves that Jesus was not always equal to his God and Father until he was resurrected and glorified.

These scriptures all prove that there was a time when Jesus was not equal with God. He is not God, he is the Son of God, and he himself says in the holy bible that his God is greater than he is. That does not sound like he was equal at that time.

Please comment on John 14:28, and if Jesus really says in the bible that God is greater than him, how do you conclude that Jesus was always = to his God. (John 20:17)

Sorry, but your learning has taught you to ignore scripture that does not fit your agenda.

If you had provided Scripture that "proves that Jesus was not always equal to his God and Father" then I must have missed them. As all you provided was Scripture that said that Jesus learned, grew, called God God, all things which are explained by the Incarnation.

We would expect that the Son would always point to His Father as His Source and Origin, for the Son always seeks the glory of His Father, even as the Father seeks the glory of His Son. We would expect that, in the Incarnation, that the Son would point to the Father as greater than Him.

Because:

1) The Monarchy of the Father, the Father is the Fount of Deity, the Source and Origin of the Son from all eternity, and the One from Whom the Spirit has His eternal procession. The Son's homoousia with the Father is from the Father, as He is God of God. This eternal generation of the Son does not make the Son a subordinate hypostasis, but it does mean--as the Church has always confessed--that the Son is of the Father, of the Father's own Essence.

"We also confess that the Son was born, but not made, from the substance of the Father, without beginning, before all ages, for at no time did the Father exist without the Son, nor the Son without the Father. Yet the Father is not from the Son, as the Son is from the Father, because the Father was not generated by the Son but the Son by the Father. The Son, therefore, is God from the Father, and the Father is God, but not from the son. He is indeed the Father of the Son, not God from the Son; but the latter is the Son of the Father and God from the Father. Yet in all things the Son is equal to God the Father, for He has never begun nor ceased to be born. We also believe that He is of one substance with the Father; wherefore He is called homoousios with the Father, that is of the same being as the Father, for homos in Greek means 'one' and ousia means 'being', and joined together they mean 'one in being'. We must believe that the Son is begotten or born not from nothing or from any other substance, but from the womb of the Father, that is from His substance. Therefore the Father is eternal, and the Son is also eternal. If He was always Father, He always had a Son, whose Father He was, and therefore we confess that the Son was born from the Father without beginning. We do not call the same Son of God a part of a divided nature, because He was generated from the Father, but we assert that the perfect Father has begotten the perfect Son, without diminution or division, for it pertains to the Godhead alone not to have an unequal Son. This Son of God is also Son by nature, not by adoption; of Him we must also believe that God the Father begot Him neither by an act of will nor out of necessity, for in God there is no necessity nor does will precede wisdom." (Symbol of Faith, 11th Council of Toledo, 675 AD)

2) The Kenosis of the Son, the Son in being "made a little lower than the angels for a little while" (Hebrews 2:9), humbly and willingly became lowly as an obedient servant. Not only of His Father, but of us as well; for "the Son of Man did not come to be served but to serve" (Mark 10:45), having "emptied Himself and taking on the form of a slave born in human likeness" (Philippians 2:7). And so in Mystery the Son, though Omnipotent and Omniscient God, "grew in wisdom, stature, and grace before God and men" (Luke 2:52).

3) This kenotic outpouring of God in Christ is not an aberration, but is consistent with God as God is. For in the Perichoresis and Divine Oikomia; for the Father does not hold Himself back, but gives Himself, empties Himself, abandons Himself to His Son, even as the Son gives Himself freely to the Father, and likewise the Spirit. For Who God is to Himself He is also to us. In this way the Ontological Trinity is the Economic Trinity. This is God's own Self-Disclosure of Himself to us in the Incarnation, that we might behold the Son and see the Father, "Whoever has seen Me has seen the Father" (John 14:9), for He is the "way, truth, and the life, no one can come to the Father but by [Him]" (John 14:6), as the Son makes the Father known, as "no one has at any time seen God, but the only-begotten God has made Him known" (John 1:18). So we find the Father declare concerning His Son, "This is My beloved Son in whom I am well pleased" (Luke 3:22), and that even as the Father had sent the Son, so the Son with His Father will send the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17, Luke 24:49). The Father is always in the Son, the Son is always in the Father, the Spirit is always in the Father and the Son, just as the Father and the Son are always in the Spirit; and there is always here living, moving, giving, and love pouring forth and out from One and Another. And in this the Kenosis we behold in the Mystery of the Incarnation is not a departure from God being God, but is what God is with Himself made manifest to us; and that by this we are swallowed up into the Mystery of God. For God is to us what He is to Himself, Love.

"Do you believe in God the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit? But these three phrases, too, are an expression—and Jesus Christ provides the proof of this—of the fact that the one God is, in his essence, love and surrender. Jesus knows, and acknowledges, himself to be the Word, Son, expression, and selfsurrender—bearing witness to itself in love—of that Origin prior to which no existent is thinkable and which he calls the “Father,” who loves him and whom he loves in a common, divine Spirit of love, a Spirit whom he bestows upon us so that we can be drawn into this abyss of love (vast beyond measure) and thus comprehend something of its superabundance: “to know the love which surpasses knowledge” (Eph 3:19)." - Fr. Hans Urs von Balthasar, Credo: Meditations on the Apostles' Creed

-CryptoLutheran
 
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He is the way

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If you had provided Scripture that "proves that Jesus was not always equal to his God and Father" then I must have missed them. As all you provided was Scripture that said that Jesus learned, grew, called God God, all things which are explained by the Incarnation.

We would expect that the Son would always point to His Father as His Source and Origin, for the Son always seeks the glory of His Father, even as the Father seeks the glory of His Son. We would expect that, in the Incarnation, that the Son would point to the Father as greater than Him.

Because:

1) The Monarchy of the Father, the Father is the Fount of Deity, the Source and Origin of the Son from all eternity, and the One from Whom the Spirit has His eternal procession. The Son's homoousia with the Father is from the Father, as He is God of God. This eternal generation of the Son does not make the Son a subordinate hypostasis, but it does mean--as the Church has always confessed--that the Son is of the Father, of the Father's own Essence.

"We also confess that the Son was born, but not made, from the substance of the Father, without beginning, before all ages, for at no time did the Father exist without the Son, nor the Son without the Father. Yet the Father is not from the Son, as the Son is from the Father, because the Father was not generated by the Son but the Son by the Father. The Son, therefore, is God from the Father, and the Father is God, but not from the son. He is indeed the Father of the Son, not God from the Son; but the latter is the Son of the Father and God from the Father. Yet in all things the Son is equal to God the Father, for He has never begun nor ceased to be born. We also believe that He is of one substance with the Father; wherefore He is called homoousios with the Father, that is of the same being as the Father, for homos in Greek means 'one' and ousia means 'being', and joined together they mean 'one in being'. We must believe that the Son is begotten or born not from nothing or from any other substance, but from the womb of the Father, that is from His substance. Therefore the Father is eternal, and the Son is also eternal. If He was always Father, He always had a Son, whose Father He was, and therefore we confess that the Son was born from the Father without beginning. We do not call the same Son of God a part of a divided nature, because He was generated from the Father, but we assert that the perfect Father has begotten the perfect Son, without diminution or division, for it pertains to the Godhead alone not to have an unequal Son. This Son of God is also Son by nature, not by adoption; of Him we must also believe that God the Father begot Him neither by an act of will nor out of necessity, for in God there is no necessity nor does will precede wisdom." (Symbol of Faith, 11th Council of Toledo, 675 AD)

2) The Kenosis of the Son, the Son in being "made a little lower than the angels for a little while" (Hebrews 2:9), humbly and willingly became lowly as an obedient servant. Not only of His Father, but of us as well; for "the Son of Man did not come to be served but to serve" (Mark 10:45), having "emptied Himself and taking on the form of a slave born in human likeness" (Philippians 2:7). And so in Mystery the Son, though Omnipotent and Omniscient God, "grew in wisdom, stature, and grace before God and men" (Luke 2:52).

3) This kenotic outpouring of God in Christ is not an aberration, but is consistent with God as God is. For in the Perichoresis and Divine Oikomia; for the Father does not hold Himself back, but gives Himself, empties Himself, abandons Himself to His Son, even as the Son gives Himself freely to the Father, and likewise the Spirit. For Who God is to Himself He is also to us. In this way the Ontological Trinity is the Economic Trinity. This is God's own Self-Disclosure of Himself to us in the Incarnation, that we might behold the Son and see the Father, "Whoever has seen Me has seen the Father" (John 14:9), for He is the "way, truth, and the life, no one can come to the Father but by [Him]" (John 14:6), as the Son makes the Father known, as "no one has at any time seen God, but the only-begotten God has made Him known" (John 1:18). So we find the Father declare concerning His Son, "This is My beloved Son in whom I am well pleased" (Luke 3:22), and that even as the Father had sent the Son, so the Son with His Father will send the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17, Luke 24:49). The Father is always in the Son, the Son is always in the Father, the Spirit is always in the Father and the Son, just as the Father and the Son are always in the Spirit; and there is always here living, moving, giving, and love pouring forth and out from One and Another. And in this the Kenosis we behold in the Mystery of the Incarnation is not a departure from God being God, but is what God is with Himself made manifest to us; and that by this we are swallowed up into the Mystery of God. For God is to us what He is to Himself, Love.

"Do you believe in God the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit? But these three phrases, too, are an expression—and Jesus Christ provides the proof of this—of the fact that the one God is, in his essence, love and surrender. Jesus knows, and acknowledges, himself to be the Word, Son, expression, and selfsurrender—bearing witness to itself in love—of that Origin prior to which no existent is thinkable and which he calls the “Father,” who loves him and whom he loves in a common, divine Spirit of love, a Spirit whom he bestows upon us so that we can be drawn into this abyss of love (vast beyond measure) and thus comprehend something of its superabundance: “to know the love which surpasses knowledge” (Eph 3:19)." - Fr. Hans Urs von Balthasar, Credo: Meditations on the Apostles' Creed

-CryptoLutheran
(New Testament | John 14:28)

28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
 
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Peter1000

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If you had provided Scripture that "proves that Jesus was not always equal to his God and Father" then I must have missed them. As all you provided was Scripture that said that Jesus learned, grew, called God God, all things which are explained by the Incarnation.

We would expect that the Son would always point to His Father as His Source and Origin, for the Son always seeks the glory of His Father, even as the Father seeks the glory of His Son. We would expect that, in the Incarnation, that the Son would point to the Father as greater than Him.

I see that you again ignored the 1 scripture that I asked you to explain to me. Why is that?

So here it is again: John 14:28. If Jesus is equal to his God, why did he tell us that his God is greater than him?

So when you say that all the scriptures I presented to you are all answered in the Incarnation, does that mean that at one time Jesus was equal to his God, but then came the incarnation, and he fell to earth and was not equal to God during this time, but when he was resurrected and returned to his God, he became equal again?
 
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