Missouri legislator booed for comment about "consensual rape."

Steve Petersen said:

How about he meant 'consensual sex.'

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That’s a far stretch, and kinda scary. We’re not talking about soundalike misstatements in this attempted excuse.

cow451 said:

Rape, by definition, is not consensual.

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I know. I'm trying to understand the "slip" part. What was the substitute word that was meant to be said.

rambot said:

I know. I'm trying to understand the "slip" part. What was the substitute word that was meant to be said.

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Can’t think of one.

rambot said:

He meant "nonconsensual rape" when he said "consensual rape"?

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I think in his apology he mentioned the word was "legitimate".

Regardless, why wouldn't you just believe him? Is it too difficult to shake the idea that he's an "evil pro-rape conservative"?

Steve Petersen said:

How about he meant 'consensual sex.'

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HOw about we look at the context of what he said:
"Republican Rep. Barry Hovis, of Cape Girardeau, said in the chamber Friday that most of the sexual assaults he handled before retiring from law enforcement weren’t strangers “jumping out of the bushes” but instead “date rapes or consensual rapes.”"
Why would he be "handling cases" of "consensual sex" in court?

This excusing making is pathetic.

I HOPE it was a misspeak but there have been enough times these "mistakes" have been made that one could suspect that people actually think this UNTIL someone helps them understand reality a bit better.

Ana the Ist said:

I think in his apology he mentioned the word was "legitimate".

Regardless, why wouldn't you just believe him? Is it too difficult to shake the idea that he's an "evil pro-rape conservative"?

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Please give an example of an “illegitimate” rape.

rambot said:

Why would he be "handling cases" of "consensual sex" in court?

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You mean no one has been falsely accused of rape after consensual sex? I am sure he has seen a few cases of that.

Ana the Ist said:

I think in his apology he mentioned the word was "legitimate".

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Could be but again, if you look at the quote of what he said "legitimate rapes" doesn't really make sense either. It seems he's trying to drive a wedge between rapes by strangers (jumping out of bushes) and rapes by known assailants. If I had the energy to look further into the context of what he said, you could understand whether he was trying to clarify public understanding or diminish the severity or impact of one kind of rape over another. I am leaning towards the latter.

Regardless, why wouldn't you just believe him? Is it too difficult to shake the idea that he's an "evil pro-rape conservative"?

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It's not "pro-rape" at all and I wouldn't argue that strawman. My thinking is it's a bit of the antiquated understanding of rape (that is, you can't be raped if you are in a relationship with someone. ie.... a spouse can't rape a spouse). This understanding ALSO allows the idea of him saying "consensual rape" make sense (being married to someone may imply consent).


Ultimately I'd wager you may be kidding yourself if you don't htink there are current legislators who espouse this view. Is it difficult to shake the idea that the meant what he said?

Steve Petersen said:

You mean no one has been falsely accused of rape after consensual sex? I am sure he has seen a few cases of that.

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Streeeeeeeetch.....

He would never have said consensual homicide or consensual burglary or consensual aggravated battery or consensual fraud.

Steve Petersen said:

You mean no one has been falsely accused of rape after consensual sex? I am sure he has seen a few cases of that.

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ROFL! So now you're trying to make DIFFERENT excuses than he himself made. "Maybe he meant to say sex".
I mean, I give you the possibility that that could make sense, the argument is totally moot. It's kind of hilarious to me that the guy didn't use your excuse since it makes FAAAAR more sense than what he said.

The things about slips of the tongue is usually you yourself can identify what you MEANT to say. Dude had a chance in his apology. And he clarified for you. IF you don't like how he chose to re-represent his words, take it up with him. Clearly you know better what he meant to say than he did.

cow451 said:

From your link:

The more sexual anxiety a subject registered, the more slips of a sexual nature. The finding was surprising: The team had expected the sexually anxious to exert extra caution and make fewer sexual slips, not more.

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Sure....put an attractive woman in a see-through top, tiny skirt, and kneeling in front of a person, and they may say "breast" instead of "best".

Not sure how that applies here though lol.

cow451 said:

That’s a far stretch, and kinda scary. We’re not talking about soundalike misstatements in this attempted excuse.

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What do you think happened? You think he accidentally revealed his belief that most female rape victims were "asking for it"?

What exactly do you think happened?

Ana the Ist said:

Sure....put an attractive woman in a see-through top, tiny skirt, and kneeling in front of a person, and they may say "breast" instead of "best".

Not sure how that applies here though lol.

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He didn’t merely miss a letter, he missed an entire concept. But keep trying because the excuse making is entertaining.

BTW, don’t insult conservatives by claiming my criticism has anything to do with them.

If its rape, how can it be consensual?

Ana the Ist said:

What do you think happened? You think he accidentally revealed his belief that most female rape victims were "asking for it"?

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Yes, except “most” may not be accurate. I’d give him the benefit of the doubt and say “some”. Or simply that he doesn’t get the “consent” thing in acquaintance rape.

bhsmte said:

If its rape, how can it be consensual?

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Fair question.

rambot said:

The things about slips of the tongue is usually you yourself can identify what you MEANT to say. Dude had a chance in his apology.

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Had a chance? He did clarify what he meant....

What I don't understand is why you think someone else's slip of the tongue should make "sense" to you personally. What other explanation is there?

cow451 said:

Yes, except “most” may not be accurate. I’d give him the benefit of the doubt and say “some”. Or simply that he doesn’t get the “consent” thing in acquaintance rape.

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And you think that's more likely than the simple explanation of "he had a slip of the tongue"?

Ana the Ist said:

Had a chance? He did clarify what he meant....

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His "clarity" obfuscated it if you consider the context of what was being discusseed.

What I don't understand is why you think someone else's slip of the tongue should make "sense" to you personally. What other explanation is there?

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In my line of work, I've become pretty great at sniffing out BS.
In fact, just today, I kid brought a knife to school. I was talking with him about it and he got upset. He lives in a "rough" (Edmonton alberta rough mind you....so not THAT bad) part of town and he has his knife to make him feel safe (never mind that I explained that in the hands of an untrained 12 year old, he's as good as skewered if an adult with ANY muscle comes at him). It's "so bad" where he lives that he said "I've had a knife pulled on me. I've had a gun pointed at my head. My mom has had it too".

I know this kid's propensity for story telling so I said, "Man. That sounds terrifying! What did your mom do when you told her that? Or your step dad?" (at the time he had a step dad in the military he says). "Oh, I didn't tell them" (he knows we will be calling his parents to inform them of these goings on and undoubtedly would bring up this story). So then the conversation shifts to the importance of telling mom about these events. And he says "Ok. I'll tell her the next time it happens". There are things that don't "add up" in this story. And, surprise surprise, we call and talk to mom and she hasn't had weapons pulled on her.
Why did I share that story?

Because, if an excuse doesn't make sense to me personally, then my training, expertise and experiences suggests that the person is lying. This legislator's explanation doesn't make sense to me (as explained above post 68). Which does not mean that his original story is FALSE, just that his explanation of events doesn't add up and seems untrue.

This is not a "bargle bargle! CONSERVATIVES ARE EVIL!". This is me simply thinking his explanation is bunk. Are you advocating thta we are supposed to be believing politicians out of hand? Because I can't imagine the last time I've heard someone in north america say that.

Honestly, I'm having a problem understanding why your confused about my unwillingness to believe a politician....of ANY type.

What other explanation is there?

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Well, the outlandish one that he actually meant what he said and believes that it is NOT rape when a girl withdraws consent, and then is forcibly made to have sex.

cow451 said:

Please give an example of an “illegitimate” rape.

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In the context of his speech?