Why is it disingenuous or contentious to say something happens according to God's plan? Either it's true or it isn't. "Facts don't care about your feelings." - Ben Shapiro.
With all forthrightness and with my best humility, it becomes a disingenuous contentiousness when it's a straw man argument constructed to avoid agreeing that God did not crucify His son in an act of wrath. I respectfully remind you that the record shows, that we’re not debating whether “something happens” according to God’s plan. We’re debating what that “something is that happened” according to God’s plan.
I agree that facts don't care about people's feelings, but we should. So let me put to rest your concerns by pointing out that clearly those words would find no conviction in me since I was never insisting that it was not God’s plan. The record clearly shows that we’re debating whether or not God crucified His son in an act of wrath that was meant for us.
Give me Bible verses for "the Father did not crucify him".
I gave you the parable of the vineyard as verifiable proof, and you simply constructed a semantic argument that since it was God’s plan, therefore God did it. So it would be futile to give more scripture when you can simply claim the same thing.
In all honesty, I would not think you are incapable of understanding that there's a difference between God sending His son to be crucified, and God actually doing the crucifying. Nonetheless allow me to explain that it's the same as when we send our soldiers to die in battle, but we aren’t the ones who kill them. Our enemies do.
And now explain this passage:
Isaiah 53:
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Note - this has nothing to do with Satan.
While I agree this scripture doesn’t mention Satan, still it would be prudent to point out that scripture identifies Satan as the power behind the worldly mindset, and that all those who do not do what is right in loving one another, are children of the devil. 1 John 4:4 , 1 John 3:10 .
With that in mind, I am eager to offer my interpretation. Let's first look at the three verses ahead of this one:
2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
I think the above verses are saying that, in our worldly carnal vanity, Jesus was seen as ugly and therefore only worthy of our disdain. He was treated unjustly, as an outcast and with undue contempt. No one would befriend him and he was regarded as if he was the one smitten and afflicted by God, when in fact we were.
Wherefore when verse 5 says he was wounded for our transgressions and bruised for our iniquities, I believe this is expressing that because we are carnal, we project our own iniquities and sinfulness upon him, whereby he was wounded and bruised unjustly by a people who are cold hearted. Psalms 69:20 .
And when it says the chastisement of our peace was upon him and with his stripes we are healed; I believe it means that when/if we do finally see the incredible suffering he endured due only to our own depravity, and also… that still yet he forgives us, then he opens our eyes to loathe that which we have become and even washes away the very cause of our zeal for cruelty with his own stripes which we gave him. Hence he in part reconciles the enmity between mankind and God when we see our error.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
In a world of vanity where people are willing to do harm to others in order to succeed, people become disillusioned and distrustful, wherefore we all deal in iniquity as we look out only for our own selves. God sent Jesus to bear a cross that our iniquity placed upon him.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
He accepted the role God had given him in this life without any complaint. 1 Peter 2:23
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
I believe this is alluding to the New Testament. For the sake of defeating sin and death he suffered at the hands of the Jewish authorities (my people) under the Old Testament.
Psalms 22:16 , Matthew 26:66 , Acts 8:33 .
9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
He who was without deceit and who had never done violence, died the violent death of a wicked person, even because he spoke the Truth in a wicked world.
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
Even though God sent his own son into the hands of the wicked and made him to know grief and death, God will be pleased in the end. Because when his soul becomes an offering for sin, Jesus will see God’s seed sown in mankind and God’s pleasure will prosper with Jesus ruling in place of vanity. 1 Peter 2:21
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
God will see the painful effort of His son through which He persevered in Love and He will be satisfied through it. For God knows that with such knowledge and understanding, His son will justify many because he was willing to bear their iniquities. 1 Peter 3:18 , 1 Peter 4:1 , 1 Peter 5:10 , Romans 2:4 .
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Because he suffered the sins/wrongs of many even unto death and yet prayed for the transgressors, I will divide him a portion with the great. Hebrews 4:15
And what does accepting that narrative as true lead to?
That God did not send His son to feel His wrath in our stead. He sent His son into the world to sow the seed of an Eternal Love that returns good for evil, endures all things, is longsuffering, bares the sins of others, is gracious and forgiving, full of mercy and understanding, and gives Eternal Life.
Two narratives:
There’s a profound difference between saying God sent His son to show God’s longsuffering Love on a cross, and God sent His son to show the wrath of God on a cross.
2 Timothy 1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of
fear; but of power, and
of love, and of a sound mind.
Romans 8:15
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Hebrews 2:14-15
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
LOL - So this is really about your ego?
No. It’s about building precept upon precept so as to establish sound deductive and inductive reasoning.
There are two kinds of zealots in the world.
1. One's who want others to understand the Scripture so those can know God better.
2. Ones who want their egos stroked by being told they are right.
Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.