Can a rape victim determine the value of their unborn child?

Aldebaran · May 23, 2019

ChristianForCats said:
That has nothing to do with abortion.

It has to do with your reasoning. Here's what you said as to what makes a fetus viable and able to achieve having rights:

ChristianForCats said:
Able to breathe, drink, digest milk, and pee naturally outside the mother's uterus IMO. But I don't know if seven former judges agreed with that description.

That's why he's asking that question.

GodLovesCats · May 23, 2019

JacksBratt said:
I will ask it again then..... What is there to report? It's a simple question..

Report it if you feel that it is reportable... I have asked nothing that is outside of the CF guidelines...

OK then, here it is . . . I was specifically talking about the first time a fetus is viable, which is the time the unborn baby has legal rights. This is not comparable to a comatose person, who already has legal rights - including how people can kill him/her if given permission to. And I am not blind, just saying what is legal, even though it is immoral. People can change my mind about what the Bible says, but the Bible is not the Constitution that all Americans must live by.

Aldebaran · May 23, 2019

ChristianForCats said:
OK then, here it is . . . I was specifically talking about the first time a fetus is viable, which is the time the unborn baby has legal rights. This is not comparable to a comatose person, who already has legal rights - including how people can kill him/her if given permission to. And I am not blind, just saying what is legal, even though it is immoral. People can change my mind about what the Bible says, but the Bible is not the Constitution that all Americans must live by.

Perhaps not, but it is the basis of what Christians should be advocating for.

Tutorman · May 23, 2019

ChristianForCats said:
I have clearly stated embryos and fetuses are human in every abortion thread and do not justify a doctor killing unborn babies just because htey would be born with disabilities. Have you not been following all of my posts that explain an unborn baby's ribhts rest solelly rests on the Roe vs. Wade decision? That does not mean I support all abortions up to viability. It only means what it is: If a woman wants an abortion in the USA before the fetus is viable, she has that legal right and religious beliefs have nothing to do with it.

No, you gave the distinct impression that baby murder is fine and even telling David that it was fine if his mother wanted not to have them placed on support. Stop moving the goal post anyone reading can see not only that you support abortion but also infanticide

GodLovesCats · May 23, 2019

Aldebaran said:
Perhaps not, but it is the basis of what Christians should be advocating for.

I am opposed to "convenience" abortions - a mother just being single or not ready for children, knowing a fetus will have a disability, and financial problems. I just don't think it is right to force raped girls to carry unborn babies against their will. If it was possible for all girls and women to avoid having sex outside of a marriage, this would not be an issue.

Aldebaran · May 23, 2019

ChristianForCats said:
I am opposed to "convenience" abortions - a mother just being single or not ready for children, knowing a fetus will have a disability, and financial problems. I just don't think it is right to force raped girls to carry unborn babies against their will. If it was possible for all girls and women to avoid having sex outside of a marriage, this would not be an issue.

Yeah, I've been on the fence when it comes to the rape/incest myself. But then I met a woman who told me she was born due to her mother being raped. It kind of made me rethink the idea because there are no doubt many such people who are alive today because their mother was raped and gave birth. Not saying that it makes rape ok, but it does show that another life is involved.

Tutorman · May 23, 2019

ChristianForCats said:
When did I say the right to have an abortion is moral just because it is legal? I was only stating the facts, which are:

The right to life in America is determined by the U.S. Constitution and current federal laws.

Supreme Court rulings can only be based on what the majority of nine judges believe, not the Bible.

You don't get it. It does not matter what nine guys say, it matters what God says. When confronted with bad laws that seculars make Christian are called to follow God's law above all else. Act 5:29. We all to figure out where our alliance lie

GodLovesCats · May 23, 2019

Tutorman said:
No, you gave the distinct impression that baby murder is fine and even telling David that it was fine if his mother wanted not to have them placed on support. Stop moving the goal post anyone reading can see not only that you support abortion but also infanticide

Grrr, 1 Corionthians 13 says love forgets and people on this forum are not forgetting.

Tutorman · May 23, 2019

ChristianForCats said:
Grrr, 1 Corionthians 13 says love forgets and people on this forum are not forgetting.

Why should we? I have not seen you recant and say you were wrong. Your the only here defending the indefensible.

GodLovesCats · May 23, 2019

Tutorman said:
You don't get it. It does not matter what nine guys say, it matters what God says. When confronted with bad laws that seculars make Christian are called to follow God's law above all else. Act 5:29. We all to figure out where our alliance lie

What at least five judges say matters because if you disobey American laws you are criminal even though you obeyed God's laws. To deny the SCOTUS matters is saying we have no laws to obey except the Bible.

Aldebaran · May 23, 2019

ChristianForCats said:
What at least five judges say matters because if you disobey American laws you are criminal even though you obeyed God's laws. To deny the SCOTUS matters is saying we have no laws to obey except the Bible.

If a woman is pregnant and has the option to have an abortion, but she's a Christian and decides that her belief in God and pleasing Him is more important than what the SCOTUS said about her "right" to abort her child, then she can certainly do what God wants rather than what she wants.

As for directly violating laws of the land, there are many people in the bible who decided that obeying God rather than man's laws was worth whatever consequences we might suffer from man.

Tutorman · May 23, 2019

ChristianForCats said:
What at least five judges say matters because if you disobey American laws you are criminal even though you obeyed God's laws. To deny the SCOTUS matters is saying we have no laws to obey except the Bible.

God's law are higher that is why some who realize that protest. I am sadly sure that if they would outlaw Christianity you would help the effort. Before you say it can't happen since you think the Supreme Court is so powerful they could legislate it from the bench.

Aldebaran · May 23, 2019

Tutorman said:
God's law are higher that is why some who realize that protest. I am sadly sure that if they would outlaw Christianity you would help the effort. Before you say it can't happen since you think the Supreme Court is so powerful they could legislate it from the bench.

All they'd have to do is consider Christianity to be "hate speech" not protected by the First Amendment because it "attacks" people who advocate unbiblical things.

GodLovesCats · May 23, 2019

Tutorman said:
Why should we? I have not seen you recant and say you were wrong. Your the only here defending the indefensible.

I am not wrong about American laws and the Constitution. The problem is other posters refuse to admit it is the ruling document for laws in America, not the Bible, as I have clearly explained. The fact that having an abortion is wrong does not take away the fact that it is legal and vice versa. I will recant my comment when others show me why the legal right to life is only based on the Bible, not the SCOTUS rulings.

Aldebaran · May 23, 2019

ChristianForCats said:
I am not wrong about American laws and the Constitution. The problem is other posters refuse to admit it is the ruling document for laws in America, not the Bible, as I have clearly explained. The fact that having an abortion is wrong does not take away the fact that it is legal and vice versa. I will recant my comment when others show me why the legal right to life is only based on the Bible, not the SCOTUS rulings.

Quite simply, it's because the SCOTUS of the time the ruling was made was looking at it only from a secular point of view.
Nobody here is saying abortion is wrong because it's not legal. It clearly is legal. What makes it wrong is that it takes a human life. Arguements have been made that it isn't a human life until it exits the woman't body, but there is plenty of evidence that show otherwise.

Tutorman · May 23, 2019

Aldebaran said:
All they'd have to do is consider Christianity to be "hate speech" not protected by the First Amendment because it "attacks" people who advocate unbiblical things.

Exactly

GodLovesCats · May 23, 2019

Tutorman said:
God's law are higher that is why some who realize that protest. I am sadly sure that if they would outlaw Christianity you would help the effort. Before you say it can't happen since you think the Supreme Court is so powerful they could legislate it from the bench.

God's law is higher when it comes to morality. I am only saying the LEGAL right to life, which has nothing to do with what is moral and should be, comes from the Supreme Court. LEGAL is not the same as moral. I do not deny abortion is immoral or that a human life begins at fertilization. People are trying to make my understanding seem to be lies, which is not true.

Tutorman · May 23, 2019

Aldebaran said:
Quite simply, it's because the SCOTUS of the time the ruling was made was looking at it only from a secular point of view.
Nobody here is saying abortion is wrong because it's not legal. It clearly is legal. What makes it wrong is that it takes a human life. Arguments have been made that it isn't a human life until it exits the woman's body, but there is plenty of evidence that show otherwise.

Exactly

Tutorman · May 23, 2019

ChristianForCats said:
God's law is higher when it comes to morality. I am only saying the LEGAL right to life, which has nothing to do with what is moral and should be, comes from the Supreme Court. LEGAL is not the same as moral. I do not deny abortion is immoral orthat a human life begins at fertilization. People are trying to make my understanding seem to be lies, which is not true.

They are lies because you hold SCOTUS higher than God. God's is not just higher when it comes to morality but everything

GodLovesCats · May 23, 2019

Aldebaran said:
Quite simply, it's because the SCOTUS of the time of the ruling was made was looking at it only from a secular point of view.

Nobody here is saying abortion is wrong because it's not legal. It clearly is legal. What makes it wrong is that it takes a human life. Arguements have been made that it isn't a human life until it exits the woman't body, but there is plenty of evidence that show otherwise.

This is exactly what I have been saying - that legality does not make it moral or right. I truly believe that. The problem is people don't realize because of the First Amendment, the government can't use Scriptures to decide when a human life begins. Their mistake was not using science.

Can a rape victim determine the value of their unborn child?

NCC-1701-A

Well-Known Member

NCC-1701-A

Charismatic Episcopalian

Well-Known Member

NCC-1701-A

Charismatic Episcopalian

Well-Known Member

Charismatic Episcopalian

Well-Known Member

NCC-1701-A

Charismatic Episcopalian

NCC-1701-A

Well-Known Member

NCC-1701-A

Charismatic Episcopalian

Well-Known Member

Charismatic Episcopalian

Charismatic Episcopalian

Well-Known Member

Similar threads