How is one saved?

SayaOtonashi said:

Do we choice to be saved or is it already given? I mean God knows all is there a point? Than again John 3:16 is who ever believe in Jesus. Wouldn't that mean we have a choice? Even God tried to warn us of our actions. He didn't create us to love us automatically but to pick or is free will a lie?

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When it comes to salvation, God is not a respecter of persons (Acts 10:35) so that eliminates any idea that God solely, unconditionally choses winners and losers.

Men have also been commanded to do such things as believe (Acts 16:31) repent and be baptized (Acts 2:38). The imperatives imply that man has both ability and responsibility to obey these commands therefore man is to use his free will to conditionally obey commands from God to be saved or not obey the gospel and be lost (2 Thessalonians 1:8)

TheSeabass said:

When it comes to salvation, God is not a respecter of persons (Acts 10:35) so that eliminates any idea that God solely, unconditionally choses winners and losers.

Men have also been commanded to do such things as believe (Acts 16:31) repent and be baptized (Acts 2:38). The imperatives imply that man has both ability and responsibility to obey these commands therefore man is to use his free will to conditionally obey commands from God to be saved or not obey the gospel and be lost (2 Thessalonians 1:8)

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The very definition of grace is unmerited unconditional favor. What you are saying goes contrary to the grace of God that saves according to the gospel. 1 Corinthians 2:14. Romans 3:10-12. So you are saying the opposite of what scripture is teaching. Can you choose what you desire? Are you autonomous or God?

Peter J Barban said:

No one would choose God if God did not enable them. The natural man will always run away/rebel from God. We see that from the beginning with Adam and Eve.
If left to our free choice, we would all go to eternal torment.

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Read as written throughout Scripture - God gives people the freedom to choose, and tells them to choose. They are permitted to choose, just as written , except when God hardens their hearts for reasons known and unknown.
Most people do choose to go to eternal torment, yes. They hate the LIGHT (JESUS),
because their lies are evil. That is also their choice, to not turn to Yahuweh, to not cry out to be healed/ saved.
Yahuweh 'enables' people to choose, to breathe, to have rain and sunshine, pretty much everything they are able to do,
is because Yahuweh makes it possible. He gave His Son, crucified, to make it possible for people to CHOOSE LIFE, instead of death.

Most people continually choose death (including on all the forums).

MDC said:

The very definition of grace is unmerited unconditional favor. What you are saying goes contrary to the grace of God that saves according to the gospel. 1 Corinthians 2:14. Romans 3:10-12. So you are saying the opposite of what scripture is teaching. Can you choose what you desire? Are you autonomous or God?

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Nowhere in the Bible is it said God's saving grace is totally, completely unconditional. If God's grace were totally unconditional then all men would be saved, (Titus 2:11) resulting in Universalism.

Belief, repentance, baptism are all commanded thereby makes them a necessary condition to receive God's grace. And meeting the conditions placed upon a free gift does not merit the free gift.

Many examples in the Bible of God's grace being conditional, one such example:

Heb 11:7 "By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith."

The saving of Noah's house was by God's grace yet to procure that saving grace, Noah had to build the ark as commanded by God. Therefore the work untaken in building of the ark did not, could not earn the saving of Noah's house. The building of the ark was a necessary condition God placed upon His grace in saving the household of Noah.

TheSeabass said:

Nowhere in the Bible is it said God's saving grace is totally, completely unconditional. If God's grace were totally unconditional then all men would be saved, (Titus 2:11) resulting in Universalism.

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Unconditional is correct. But with perfect righteousness and with perfect justice also.

If we had to meet some 'condition' to be saved, before God saved us, we are all doomed.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Unconditional is correct. But with perfect righteousness and with perfect justice also.

If we had to meet some 'condition' to be saved, before God saved us, we are all doomed.

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What verse says God's saving grace is totally UNconditional?

Again, Titus 2:11 all men would be saved if God's grace were completely unconditional.

There is no example anywhere in the gospel of any individual being saved unconditionally apart from the gospel word, apart from obedience to the gospel (2 Thessalonians 1:8).

Noah "prepared an ark to the saving of his house". Noah prepared the ark in order for his house to be saved, not because his house was already saved from the flood. Likewise, men must first meet the conditions God has placed upon salvation (belief, repentance, confession, baptism) in order to be saved not because they are already saved. Meeting the condition(s) comes BEFORE receiving the free gift, for again, God did not first save Noah's house from the flood, THEN afterwards Noah built the ark....Noah did not first receive the free gift, then meet the condition.
Noah had an enormous condition to meet in order for his house to be saved by God's grace, Noah was not doomed but Noah did "according to all that God commanded him, so did he." (Genesis 6:22)

Will unbelievers be saved? No, (Revelation 21:8). Therefore belief is one necessary condition that must be met before one can receive God's grace. And even though NT belief is a work, (John 6:27-29) it does not, cannot merit God's saving grace no more than Noah's work in building the ark earned/merited the saving of his house.

TheSeabass said:

Nowhere in the Bible is it said God's saving grace is totally, completely unconditional. If God's grace were totally unconditional then all men would be saved, (Titus 2:11) resulting in Universalism.

Belief, repentance, baptism are all commanded thereby makes them a necessary condition to receive God's grace. And meeting the conditions placed upon a free gift does not merit the free gift.

Many examples in the Bible of God's grace being conditional, one such example:

Heb 11:7 "By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith."

The saving of Noah's house was by God's grace yet to procure that saving grace, Noah had to build the ark as commanded by God. Therefore the work untaken in building of the ark did not, could not earn the saving of Noah's house. The building of the ark was a necessary condition God placed upon His grace in saving the household of Noah.

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Grace is UNMERITED (unconditional) favor. Listen to what you are saying. You are completely flipping the meaning on it’s head to uphold your opinion. Faith and repentance are the result of Gods grace. Not the cause. You are teaching grace is merited and earned which nullifies it’s meaning altogether. Your example of using Noah demonstrates your teaching is backwards. Instead of seeing Noah’s obedience and faithfulness as the fruit of Gods grace, you see it as the basis for Gods grace. This is wrong. The object where Noah’s faith or trust rested in was God and His promise to deliver him from judgment. His faithfulness was the fruit that demonstrated his faith in God

MDC said:

Grace is UNMERITED (unconditional) favor. Listen to what you are saying. You are completely flipping the meaning on it’s head to uphold your opinion. Faith and repentance are the result of Gods grace. Not the cause. You are teaching grace is merited and earned which nullifies it’s meaning altogether. Your example of using Noah demonstrates your teaching is backwards. Instead of seeing Noah’s obedience and faithfulness as the fruit of Gods grace, you see it as the basis for Gods grace. This is wrong. The object where Noah’s faith or trust rested in was God and His promise to deliver him from judgment. His faithfulness was the fruit that demonstrated his faith ionly way the Christian does not live in sin is by obedience to God's law/willn God

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"Unmerited" does not mean "unconditional". Since free gifts can and do come with conditions, this means meeting the conditions placed upon a free gift does not merit the free gift.

There would have been no saving of Noah's house by grace had Noah not done as God commanded and conditionally built the ark. Therefore in the Bible, (1) grace and (2) man's obedience (the condition God has places upon His free gift) go hand in hand.

Grace and obedience are not antagonistic to each other:

In Romans 6, Paul's response to the idea that "grace only" saves would be "God forbid".
--sin is transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4)
--Christians are those who are dead to sin (Romans 6:2) and the only way the Christian does not continue to live in sin is by obedience to God's NT law.
--Romans 6:16, we each are serving either:
1) sin unto death (condemnation)
or
2) obedience unto righteousness (salvation)

Therefore to be saved requires BOTH God's grace AND man's "obedience unto righteousness".
Yet "grace alone" will not save the disobedient person who continues "serving sin unto death".

Saint JOHN said:

37 ¶ Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.

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In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

So the only logical conclusion *when properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture* is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

and when you receive, so as to become a true believer.....

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John 1:12 - But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

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Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics. John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

so you can tell religious types from real believers.

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Yes I can.

SayaOtonashi said:

What about the fact God knows all. How is it still a choice

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He has foreknowledge of what the choices will be because He knows the end from the beginning ... but does not make the choices for anyone.