You evolve in Heaven? What Changes? Jesus seeks your Evolution out? What does He notice?

Danielwright2311 · May 22, 2019

mark kennedy said:
They now know of some of those molecular mechanisms, one of those discovered is now the most powerful gene editing tool in the world:

SPECTER: CRISPR is actually an ancient bacterial defense system. It's like an immune system for bacteria, which is surprising because for a long time, scientists didn't think bacteria had adaptive immune systems. But in 1987, some Japanese scientists were looking for something in DNA, and they saw this weird group of nucleotides, pieces of DNA. They had no idea what they were doing and what they meant and what their function was. And in a piece they published in The Journal of Bacteriology, the last sentence literally was, and we saw this weird, crazy group of nucleotides, and we have no idea what they're doing there. And that was that. And that was not for a very long time. (New Gene-Editing Techniques Hold the Promise Of Altering The Fundamentals Of Life. NPR)

Again and again I have heard to argument of mutations plus selection equals evolution. This argument was specifically applied to the adaptation of plants, animals and especially to bacteria for decades. As it turns out there was an actual molecular mechanism that specifically targeted the immune system of bacteria. Once isolated this mechanism became the most powerful gene editing tool in the world, the full rights now owned by MIT.

What all of them are we are only beginning to understand but there are molecular mechanisms involved in adaptive evolution that are a natural part of genomes. That is exactly what a creationist would expect given a sound reliance on the divine providence of a sovereign creator. My point was and is, adaptive evolution is not a product of chance, it's a part of design. God designed and built living systems to build, grow and adapt.

As a part of what? As a part of living systems as God intended, evolution isn't an affront to creation, it's a viable proof of it since there is no naturally occurring process that could produce it apart from an originally created kind.

Four thousand years ago a limited number of mammals, birds and reptiles emerge from the ark and become, by a rough estimate, between 2 to 60 million species globally. Now unless God continued to create species the only logical explanation is they evolved according to the plans and purposes of God.

Grace and peace,
Mark

As I agree with you i disagree with changing from animals to humans as Adam named all the animals.

I can not and will not go against the truth of Gods word.

Yes, cells divide, but not to form new adaptive life, but to change eye color, hair color, how tall we are, stuff like this.

God invented us not from a adaptive approach, but from the dusk of the earth.

I was not disagreeing with you, I used your comment to show others truth on how they use educated sounding literature to better support there lies. And most of the lies are for funding, there is now billions pushed into evolution with no results other then 3d videos.

mark kennedy · May 22, 2019

Danielwright2311 said:
As I agree with you i disagree with changing from animals to humans as Adam named all the animals.

Much of the problem has to do with terminology, animals are composed of animalia cells, it simply means animated. Now as far as apes evolving into humans there is a very serious problem for the Darwinian, highly conserved brain related genes do not respond well to mutations ever. That's the power of science, it's the great equalizer. Evolution and creation are two separate issues, creation is at the point of origin, evolution is what happens after. We are faced with a highly questionable naturalistic assumption that everything can be explained by naturally occurring processes, which may well be true, except at the point of origin.

I can not and will not go against the truth of Gods word.

Nor do you have to in order to understand adaptive evolution and biology.

Yes, cells divide, but not to form new adaptive life, but to change eye color, hair color, how tall we are, stuff like this.

There are explanations for that, they exist in a body of work known as Mendelian Genetics.

God invented us not from a adaptive approach, but from the dusk of the earth.

Again, we are talking about two different things. One is the point of origin and the other is what happened following. Science does not do origins, that is a branch of human thinking known as metaphysics. Science focuses exclusively on the study of natural phenomenon and you will never get the origin of life from that.

I was not disagreeing with you, I used your comment to show others truth on how they use educated sounding literature to better support there lies. And most of the lies are for funding, there is now billions pushed into evolution with no results other then 3d videos.

Or National Geographic depictions of stone age ape men as a matter of fact. It's a farce but not with regards to natural science, that is actually very helpful. It's the naturalistic view that all things are explained as exclusively naturalistic causes going back to and including the Big Bang. We do well to discern the difference.

Grace and peace,
Mark

nolidad · May 22, 2019

Jonathan Walkerin said:
There you go. Took 10 seconds of googling.

Except a few things- they started and ended as the same bacteria! Also bacteria operatre in some differing ways than the higher taxa do!

also this little snippet fails to mention that most mutations- get repaired by8 the cell repair mechanism in in the genome!

Also they failed to mention that as a living creature adds mutations- it creates what is called a genetic load which robs the host of its reproductive viability or its life itself!

Mutations do not advance life- but devovle it!

aiki · May 22, 2019

Gottservant said:
So I am imagining basically, that in Heaven: anything is possible.

Anything? Like, say, genocide, or prostitution, or Satan worship? These things are possible in heaven? I don't think so.

Gottservant said:
But if you are going to evolve, are you really going to pursue anything different to what you already had? I mean is the older the Evolution, not the better?

Evolve? What makes you think you "evolve" in heaven? You'll have a glorified body and understand the true nature of reality and of God (at least, better than you do now), but this isn't evolution in the biological sense.

Gottservant said:
And for another thing, we are supposed to be ready for the Master: what is he going to find, if all you have done is evolve? Is that not beating fellow servants, over words that define something other than Creation? And is it not a talent unused, if nothing can improve it?

Once you've journeyed to the other side of death, you won't be "waiting for the Master" any longer. You'll see him face-to-face.

You know, the Bible no where talks of evolution. Natural selection and cellular mutation will not, I think, occur to the glorified bodies of the saints. Corruption will put on incorruption, the Bible says.

Gottservant said:
I fully understand that men have to be given over to delusion, if they will not praise God, but how are we to live with these self-same men, if we have no part with that delusion?

In the afterlife? Scripture makes it pretty clear, it seems to me, that the ungodly, the unrepentant wicked, will not stand in the judgement nor in the congregation of the righteous. (Psalms 1:6) The saints of God will not dwell with the lost in the afterlife.

In any event, the ToE has some serious problems that rule it out as a likely explanation for the current biological state of affairs on Earth:

Impossibility of abiogenesis.
Origin of genetic information.
Irreducible complexity.
Absence of the millions upon millions of transitional fossils that should exist if evolution is true.
The Cambrian Explosion.
Etc.

Maria Billingsley · May 22, 2019

Gottservant said:
Hi there,

So I am imagining basically, that in Heaven: anything is possible. But if you are going to evolve, are you really going to pursue anything different to what you already had? I mean is the older the Evolution, not the better?

And for another thing, we are supposed to be ready for the Master: what is he going to find, if all you have done is evolve? Is that not beating fellow servants, over words that define something other than Creation? And is it not a talent unused, if nothing can improve it?

I fully understand that men have to be given over to delusion, if they will not praise God, but how are we to live with these self-same men, if we have no part with that delusion? The pharisee that prays "I thank you that I am not like other sinners" is not justified - how then is the reprobate tax collector supposed to consider his way, having nothing to compare it to, beyond Evolution?

I think, what it is, is that there will be a move of the Holy Spirit, that will plant a seed, that men had not reckoned, on coming from God. This seed, will be what you would be had you kept your word, from the beginning - which is better than having your word changed!

I mean if Evolution can be restored to what it was, without mutation... who wouldn't want that?

It is not evolving that will be experienced it is restoration. A relationship humans once experienced with no obstacles known as sin. Perfection with the most High. This is how it was always intended.
Blessings

PaulCyp1 · May 22, 2019

You don't "evolve". You immediately achieve perfection - perfect happiness, perfect peace, perfect existence.

JacksBratt · May 22, 2019

Gottservant said:
Hi there,

So I am imagining basically, that in Heaven: anything is possible. But if you are going to evolve, are you really going to pursue anything different to what you already had? I mean is the older the Evolution, not the better?

And for another thing, we are supposed to be ready for the Master: what is he going to find, if all you have done is evolve? Is that not beating fellow servants, over words that define something other than Creation? And is it not a talent unused, if nothing can improve it?

I fully understand that men have to be given over to delusion, if they will not praise God, but how are we to live with these self-same men, if we have no part with that delusion? The pharisee that prays "I thank you that I am not like other sinners" is not justified - how then is the reprobate tax collector supposed to consider his way, having nothing to compare it to, beyond Evolution?

I think, what it is, is that there will be a move of the Holy Spirit, that will plant a seed, that men had not reckoned, on coming from God. This seed, will be what you would be had you kept your word, from the beginning - which is better than having your word changed!

I mean if Evolution can be restored to what it was, without mutation... who wouldn't want that?

What?

DennisTate · May 22, 2019

Gottservant said:
Hi there,

So I am imagining basically, that in Heaven: anything is possible. But if you are going to evolve, are you really going to pursue anything different to what you already had? I mean is the older the Evolution, not the better?

And for another thing, we are supposed to be ready for the Master: what is he going to find, if all you have done is evolve? Is that not beating fellow servants, over words that define something other than Creation? And is it not a talent unused, if nothing can improve it?

I fully understand that men have to be given over to delusion, if they will not praise God, but how are we to live with these self-same men, if we have no part with that delusion? The pharisee that prays "I thank you that I am not like other sinners" is not justified - how then is the reprobate tax collector supposed to consider his way, having nothing to compare it to, beyond Evolution?

I think, what it is, is that there will be a move of the Holy Spirit, that will plant a seed, that men had not reckoned, on coming from God. This seed, will be what you would be had you kept your word, from the beginning - which is better than having your word changed!

I mean if Evolution can be restored to what it was, without mutation... who wouldn't want that?

Have you read the near death experience account of Dr. George Ritchie that he had back in 1943?

Here is his description of two of the highest heavenly realms that he was shown:

near-death .com/
e. His Observations of the Temple of Wisdom

The following is the testimony of George Ritchie's Temple of Wisdom and Heavenly City Experience: They then travel to a completely different realm where some kind of enormous university is located. Spirits dressed as monks busily and happily engaged in some form of artistic behavior or research. Anenormous library exists here where all the important books of the universe are assembled. Ritchie asks Jesus if this is heaven. These are the spirits of people who grew beyond selfish desires while on Earth; but, like the spirits in hell, these spirits cannot see Jesus either.

f. His Vision of the Heavenly City

Ritchie is then taken into outer space toward a distant city made of brilliant light - similar in description to the heavenly city in the Book of Revelation (see also Revelation 21:10-27.) This is the place where people go who have become like Jesus while on Earth - a place where love is the dominant focus of life. This is heaven he realizes; but he is not allowed to enter it. Instead, Jesus shows him the future of Earth and is told to return to his physical body. At this point, Ritchie is revived from death.

DamianWarS · May 22, 2019

Jonathan Walkerin said:
Amazing indeed. I have even known a few people who died from cell mutation turned cancer. It really did not take them that long.

you're picking cancer as your poster child of cell mutation?

Jonathan Walkerin · May 23, 2019

DamianWarS said:
you're picking cancer as your poster child of cell mutation?

It is a biological process not a devious person out to get you. It is not inherently morally bad or good and cancer is something most of us have some real life experience so why not ?

DamianWarS · May 23, 2019

Jonathan Walkerin said:
It is a biological process not a devious person out to get you. It is not inherently morally bad or good and cancer is something most of us have some real life experience so why not ?

Because cancer seeks to destroy not increase. Remind me of your position?

Jonathan Walkerin · May 23, 2019

DamianWarS said:
Because cancer seeks to destroy not increase. Remind me of your position?

It is mainly uncontrolled growth it does not really seek anything. The above was mainly intended as answer to posts that maintained that mutations did not happen and if they did it would take like gazillion years.

Not saying having a cancer is a biological advantage.

DamianWarS · May 23, 2019

Jonathan Walkerin said:
It is mainly uncontrolled growth it does not really seek anything. The above was mainly intended as answer to posts that maintained that mutations did not happen and if they did it would take like gazillion years.

Not saying having a cancer is a biological advantage.

is it not your point to show mutations can be for biological advantage? cancer does not show this, nor is it genetically passed on.

Jonathan Walkerin · May 23, 2019

DamianWarS said:
is it not your point to show mutations can be for biological advantage? cancer does not show this, nor is it genetically passed on.

Hardly a point anymore than pointing out that standing in the rain gets you wet but sure here is some if you want a list for humans specifically

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-common-example-of-beneficial-mutation-in-human

While the cancer is not genetically passed on there are genes that do make you more likely to develop that are passed on. More info on

Inherited genes and cancer types.

martymonster · May 23, 2019

Why would we evolve? We will be perfect.

visionary · May 23, 2019

Gottservant said:
Hi there,

So I am imagining basically, that in Heaven: anything is possible. But if you are going to evolve, are you really going to pursue anything different to what you already had? I mean is the older the Evolution, not the better?

And for another thing, we are supposed to be ready for the Master: what is he going to find, if all you have done is evolve? Is that not beating fellow servants, over words that define something other than Creation? And is it not a talent unused, if nothing can improve it?

I fully understand that men have to be given over to delusion, if they will not praise God, but how are we to live with these self-same men, if we have no part with that delusion? The pharisee that prays "I thank you that I am not like other sinners" is not justified - how then is the reprobate tax collector supposed to consider his way, having nothing to compare it to, beyond Evolution?

I think, what it is, is that there will be a move of the Holy Spirit, that will plant a seed, that men had not reckoned, on coming from God. This seed, will be what you would be had you kept your word, from the beginning - which is better than having your word changed!

I mean if Evolution can be restored to what it was, without mutation... who wouldn't want that?

Since heaven is a place where we grow even closer to God than we ever have on earth, since God's goal is for us to be His image, I imagine that we will glow with His glory, travel via chariot, flying horse, and can travel His universe, and see and learn all of His creation. Evolving into being more God like also takes on the responsibilities that He has. Creative work, elementary work started with tending the garden, will grow as we mature into the kind of beings He wants us to be.

DamianWarS · May 23, 2019

Jonathan Walkerin said:
Hardly a point anymore than pointing out that standing in the rain gets you wet but sure here is some if you want a list for humans specifically

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-common-example-of-beneficial-mutation-in-human

While the cancer is not genetically passed on there are genes that do make you more likely to develop that are passed on. More info on

Inherited genes and cancer types.

rain is life giving cancer is not. I have no issue reconciling evolution with creation so I'm not going to go into some big battle here. I just think citing cancer as your go to example of mutation seems poorly planned.

PaulCyp1 · May 23, 2019

No, you don't evolve in Heaven. You will already be perfect. What more could you evolve to?

harko · May 23, 2019

I hope this is not headed to the We Will be Gods theory!

The Barbarian · May 23, 2019

Danielwright2311 said:
Any one who believes in evolution calls God a liar.

How sad that anyone would be so angry at the truth that he would smear other Christians like that. You must be really, really invested in your new doctrines.

Even ancient Christians knew that the creation story is a parable.

Incidentally, if God had magically poofed everything into existence as your revised version has it, evolution would work exactly as it does now. Even Darwin suggested that God just created the first living things.

Do something about that anger. You won't lose salvation for being a YEC, but slandering other Christians might be a risky practice.

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