God is Good

Tony Bristow-Stagg · May 22, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
That's not what is written (nor in line with) in Yahuweh's Word though. Big enough difference to mean loss of life.

I see it is 100% in line with scripture, it is a fulfillment and not to consider it is so, is spiritual death.

Regards Tony

gaara4158 · May 22, 2019

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
The standard is Gods Prophets and Mesengers, their person and their life. After that we have the Word of God. This is the standard God gives us in each age. It is God's Covenant that He will never leave us without guidance.

What we’re trying to get you to grapple with is what makes these things good. Are they good by definition (good is whatever these prophets and messengers taught and lived) or are they good because they align with some already-existing moral principles that they (and God) are merely communicating to us?

Tony Bristow-Stagg · May 22, 2019

gaara4158 said:
What we’re trying to get you to grapple with is what makes these things good. Are they good by definition (good is whatever these prophets and messengers taught and lived) or are they good because they align with some already-existing moral principles that they (and God) are merely communicating to us?

The Messengers are the source of all Good. All the good done reverts back to them. They are the primal point of all life.

Regards Tony

gaara4158 · May 22, 2019

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
The Messengers are the source of all Good. All the good done reverts back to them. They are the primal point of all life.

Regards Tony

I’m not sure that answers my question. They may be the source of all Good, but is what they produce considered “good” because it is they who produced it, or is it considered “good” because it adheres to some outside standard for good?

If it is good because it is they who produced it, then you have a tautology and “good” loses its meaning. “Good” is just whatever the messengers convey and so it calls into question the value of doing or being good. Why follow their lead?

If it is good because it adheres to some outside standard for good, what is that standard?

cvanwey · May 22, 2019

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
All good is given in Gods Holy Scriptures. The example of Gods Messengers, also teach us what is good.

Regards Tony

Would you mind at least addressing my request? I will post it again, and highlight the parts you've missed:

'1. Is whatever God decides to do 'good', no matter what, because it is God whom is doing it?'

You stated 'all good is from God.' There's a reason I ask... Tiny example:

A person kills their child and claims they were told by God to do so.

Or

President W. Bush states he spoke to God about attacking Iraq.

How would this be any different from Biblical stories? If God is interactive today, and speaks with humans, how do you know God is still not issuing commands to His believers? You would have no choice but to judge such a claimed action, at least in part, 'morally.' How would you distinguish if God is speaking to you, verses not? What mechanism would you use?

I would assume you believe God speaks to His children at present??? If so, how can you distinguish the act as good, as mentioned above?

Tony Bristow-Stagg · May 22, 2019

gaara4158 said:
I’m not sure that answers my question. They may be the source of all Good, but is what they produce considered “good” because it is they who produced it, or is it considered “good” because it adheres to some outside standard for good?

If it is good because it is they who produced it, then you have a tautology and “good” loses its meaning. “Good” is just whatever the messengers convey and so it calls into question the value of doing or being good. Why follow their lead?

If it is good because it adheres to some outside standard for good, what is that standard?

As a metephor it can be see they are all born of the Holy Spirit, we are born of the Human Spirit. They are the source of Light, we are darkness until we allow the light to shine from us.

We will neber kmow God in Essence, tge door is shut to that knowledge. Thus God sends all His Mesengers with the Holy Spirit, which is all the Virtues. They can be seen as the rays from the sun. Just as light gives material life, virtues also give spiritual life.

So Love is the Overiding virtue they give. Love is the universal attractive force for all creation.

Then we have the two great pillars of Trustworthiness and Truthfulness which all other virtues depend upon.

Each Manifestation is God's love and they are born of all virtues. The first thing they will be seen as is always Trustworthy and Truthful.

We can also look at it this way. The sun is the animating force of light and life. Darkness brings death and decay. The virtues likewise have the same result in our spiritual lives. We have the potential to eliminate all darkness from our own selves, this is what life is all about, our free will choice to do just that. Imagine if we elevated above this earth always looking towards the sun, put not one thing between us and the sun and did not turn away from the sun, then we would not know darkness.

Regards Tony

yeshuaslavejeff · May 22, 2019

This section of the forum, isn't it only for Christians? Not for the other beliefs/ religions.

Tony Bristow-Stagg · May 22, 2019

cvanwey said:
If so, how can you distinguish the act as good, as mentioned above?

As I have said. If they are Christain, what does the Bible say about such acts.

If they are Muslim, what does the Quran say about such acts.

If they have no Faith, what does the law of the land say about such acts?

In that way you have the answers to your questions.

My point of view on your two questions, is the child killer is obvious and this needs no answer from me.

The other is political and I do not comment on these aspects. A general comment would be when faced with such issues, one must look towards what God has offered and then act within those guidelines and within the Laws of the Land.

Regards Tony

yeshuaslavejeff · May 22, 2019

Simple:

There is no one good except Yahuweh (God).

Nothing of the flesh is even profitable.

gaara4158 · May 22, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
This section of the forum, isn't it only for Christians? Not for the other beliefs/ religions.

Christians and those directly challenging the Christian faith.

yeshuaslavejeff · May 22, 2019

gaara4158 said:
Christians and those directly challenging the Christian faith.

Really?

Like bahai and humanist ? etc etc etc .......

gaara4158 · May 22, 2019

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
As a metephor it can be see they are all born of the Holy Spirit, we are born of the Human Spirit. They are the source of Light, we are darkness until we allow the light to shine from us.

We will neber kmow God in Essence, tge door is shut to that knowledge. Thus God sends all His Mesengers with the Holy Spirit, which is all the Virtues. They can be seen as the rays from the sun. Just as light gives material life, virtues also give spiritual life.

So Love is the Overiding virtue they give. Love is the universal attractive force for all creation.

Then we have the two great pillars of Trustworthiness and Truthfulness which all other virtues depend upon.

Each Manifestation is God's love and they are born of all virtues. The first thing they will be seen as is always Trustworthy and Truthful.

We can also look at it this way. The sun is the animating force of light and life. Darkness brings death and decay. The virtues likewise have the same result in our spiritual lives. We have the potential to eliminate all darkness from our own selves, this is what life is all about, our free will choice to do just that. Imagine if we elevated above this earth always looking towards the sun, put not one thing between us and the sun and did not turn away from the sun, then we would not know darkness.

Regards Tony

You’re still not engaging the issue. Your metaphors depend on the fact that light and life are favored by humans over darkness and decay. This would imply that the real standard of goodness is what humans want, but that seems to undercut your whole premise that goodness is determined by the messengers, not the humans.

gaara4158 · May 22, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Really?

Like bahai and humanist ? etc etc etc .......

Yes.

Tony Bristow-Stagg · May 22, 2019

gaara4158 said:
You’re still not engaging the issue. Your metaphors depend on the fact that light and life are favored by humans over darkness and decay. This would imply that the real standard of goodness is what humans want, but that seems to undercut your whole premise that goodness is determined by the messengers, not the humans.

The standard of Good for us, becomes where and what we turn our heart to.

Christ said it best. To obtain unto good one must be born again from the flesh, into the Spirit.

How are we born again? Acceptance of Christ and the 'Word of God'.

Regards Tony

gaara4158 · May 22, 2019

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
The standard of Good for us, becomes where and what we turn our heart to.

Christ said it best. To obtain unto good one must be born again from the flesh, into the Spirit.

How are we born again? Acceptance of Christ and the 'Word of God'.

Regards Tony

So good isn’t what the messengers say now? It’s what we “turn our heart to?” I’m completely confused as to what your position is now.

Tony Bristow-Stagg · May 22, 2019

gaara4158 said:
So good isn’t what the messengers say now? It’s what we “turn our heart to?” I’m completely confused as to what your position is now.

Maybe you need to read again what is posted? The source of all Good is God through His Mesengers. Our heart can choose to turn to that good or not.

Or using metephor. The sun is God, the Rays are the Holy Spirit, the Messenger is the perfect unblemished mirror. If we turn the mirror of our heart towards them and polish away the veils of this world, we can also reflect what is from God. We can not do that without the Messenger.

That is quite clear and precise. Regards Tony

Tone · May 22, 2019

gaara4158 said:
I’m not sure that answers my question. They may be the source of all Good, but is what they produce considered “good” because it is they who produced it, or is it considered “good” because it adheres to some outside standard for good?

If it is good because it is they who produced it, then you have a tautology and “good” loses its meaning. “Good” is just whatever the messengers convey and so it calls into question the value of doing or being good. Why follow their lead?

If it is good because it adheres to some outside standard for good, what is that standard?

Reading this OP may help:

Reason of Reasons

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · May 22, 2019

cvanwey said:
I hear this quite often, at least in my interconnected circle. Which raises (3) questions.

1. Is whatever God decides to do 'good', no matter what, because it is God whom is doing it?

Because I would imagine it seems that God, both in the Bible, and in the lives of all believers, have said to themselves at least one time or another, especially during 'trying' times, 'God works in mysterious ways'. Or, 'God's ways are above our level of understanding.' Or, 'God does all things according to His will.' It goes without saying, all such sayings are usually issued when the believer tends not to agree, at least on some level, with God's apparent plan.

Two additional questions, continuing from another topic...

If God is Good....

2. Why not instead contain the perpetuating cause of evil, (i.e.) Satan and/or his demons?

3. Why allow evil to continue existing, when it is instead belief, faith, and a relationship with Christ which drives the admittance to heaven? Sin appears to be a by-product everyone on earth commits and experiences regardless of belief/non-belief.

I think you first need to know what "evil" is before you can go further with this topic.

Tony Bristow-Stagg · May 22, 2019

No Username Found said:
I think you first need to know what "evil" is before you can go further with this topic.

We can see evil is just the absence of Good.

Same as darkness is just absence of light.

Regards Tony

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · May 22, 2019

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
We can see evil is just the absence of Good.

Same as darkness is just absence of light.

Regards Tony

Right. It is not enough to merely say that "God is good." God is omnibenevolent, meaning that He IS goodness and nothing but good can be created by Him or emanated from Him. Evil, is not a thing in itself. Rather, it is a privation, an absence of something that ought to be there. Like a hole in a sweater. In this case, evil is an absence of good.

God is Good

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