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Khadija (555-619 AD) is often referred to as the "Mother of the believers". The first wife of Mohammed was apparently 40 and the richest woman in Mecca, from the dominant Quraysch tribe there, when she proposed to one of her caravan managers Mohammed ibn Abdullah. (The Sunni and Shia tradition differ on the details but I am going with the Sunni one which seems more widely accepted and credible about the details). Mohammed was only 25 at the time. She had been married twice before and widowed twice and she had other children from these previous marriages. Mohammed would later say of her when Aisha his youngest wife spoke of her as a "toothless old woman"
"She believed in me when no one else would. She considered me truthful when the people called me a liar. She helped me with her fortune when the people left me with nothing. Allah gave me children from her while he gave me none from other women."
Mohammed was monogamous while married to her (it seems to have been a part of the marriage contract) and arguably his most spiritual and More closely Christian revelations came during his marriage to her. At that time he was even hailed as a prophet by Christians that knew him, albeit none who had a proper biblical perspective.
She like Mohammed seems to have moved from being someone who would sacrifice a sheep or two to the idol Al-Uzza (Virgin star goddess and patroness of Mecca who was apparently worshipped for potency in war situations also) to a more monotheistic outlook.
The three most important influences on this development seems to have been cousins of her and Mohammed. The influence of these mens Jewish or Nestorian outlooks seems evident in Mohammed spiritual understandings as expressed in the Quranic suras later also.
Waraqa ibn Nawfal (Nestorian priest), Uthmann ibn Al-Huwayrith (Christian convert and wannabe King of Mecca) and Ubaydallah ibn Jahsh
These three helped to move Mohammed and his wife from a dissatisfaction with the traditional religions of Mecca to a more Monotheistic outlook and introduced him to Heaven, Hell, holy books he could not read for himself and ideas about prophets. There are some stories that Khadija actually became a Christian at this time and later understood Mohammed to be a new sort of Christian prophet. As his wife aged ,about 15 years into his marriage, and about 5 years after the birth of their last child Fatima ( so she was 55 by this time while he was 39), Mohammed was in the habit of meditating in a cave in Mount Hira (610 AD). It was there that he claims to have had his first encounter with the angel Jibreel (Gabriel). He was apparently terrified by these revelations and ran back and asked his wife to cover him. Later he claimed that Jibreel was in their bedroom. Khadija stripped naked and stood between him and the place he said the angel was and tried to seduce him to have sex. Mohammed said the angel left for the sake of modesty and Khadija said that was a proof that the angel was good rather than evil. From then on Mohammed trusted the angels revelations. Over the next 9 years of their marriage she supported his ministry , defending him from attacks, evangelising neighbours and expending much of her fortune supporting the Muslim community against attacks from her increasingly irritated contemporaries in the rich elite of Mecca. By the end of her life as the Muslim community in Mecca grew there was outright hostility to the Muslims and to Mohammeds message.
After she died Mohammed seemed to fall apart spiritually.
1) He never really came up with the deeply spiritual utterances of those first years again in the later suras in Mecca and then in Medina. Indeed these later suras read as rather flat and contrived by comparison the earlier ones which sounded more inspired.
2) He started making war alliances with various tribal leaders and preparing for physical conflict. He started organising Muslims on the lines of a state and an army for God. Indeed his move to Medina 2-3 years after she died was a part of this change in his outlook.
3) He accumulated a host of wives, underaged children with whom he had sex and sex slaves in those later years though interestingly was blessed with no children from any of them.
4) The massacre of the Jewish Banu Qurayza men and the enslaving of the women as slaves (including a sex slave for himself) took place after Khadija.
So I actually have questions myself about the early Mohammed actually seeing an angel that seemed to lead him in a positive direction away from idols and towards the worship of the One true God. As I said some of those early suras reflect a Christian outlook albeit one filtered through a poorly educated and doctrinally messy Nestorian and Jewish set of filters.
There is little to reject in this earlier Meccan sura for instance which reminds me of John the Baptist calling people to repent:
O manl What has seduced thee from thy Lord Most Beneficent? Him Who created thee, fashioned thee in due proportion, and gave thee a just bias; In whatever Form He wills, does He put them together. Nay! But ye do reject Right and Judgment! But verily over you (are appointed angels) to protect you, kind and honourable, writing down (your deeds): They know and understand all that ye do. As for the Righteous, they will be in Bliss; and the Wicked, they will be in the Fire, which they will enter on the Day of Judgment, and they will not be able to keep away therefrom. And what will explain to thee what the Day of Judgment is? Again, what will explain to thee what the Day of Judgment is? (It will be) the Day when no soul shall have power (to do) aught for another: For the Command, that Day, will be (wholly) with God. Surah 82.6-19.
It seems clear that the late Mohammed can be more easily rejected for his child abuse, sex slavery, genocides, more warlike behaviour, attacks on Christians and Jews, false doctrines, obviously borrowed and distorted material, misguided notions about Jesus etc etc. But the early Mohammed , the Mohammed influenced and controlled to a great extent by Khadija, is more attractive from a Christian point of view.
So was there an angel in those early years followed by a whole load of personally and politically contrived revelations afterwards, then all neatly edited by later Caliphs into the Quran and Hadiths we have today. In other words was Mohammed a Christian prophet that went bad?
So some questions to focus the OP
1) Do you agree that there is a profound difference between the Mohammed who was married to Khadija and the later Mohammed?
2) Was Khadija a Christian and was the message of the early Mohammed something that Christians do not have to outright reject but might have even have reflected an honest prophetic gifting and actual encounters with an angel?
3) Why did Mohammed fall apart spiritually after Khadija died?
4) was Mohammed a Christian prophet that went bad?
"She believed in me when no one else would. She considered me truthful when the people called me a liar. She helped me with her fortune when the people left me with nothing. Allah gave me children from her while he gave me none from other women."
Mohammed was monogamous while married to her (it seems to have been a part of the marriage contract) and arguably his most spiritual and More closely Christian revelations came during his marriage to her. At that time he was even hailed as a prophet by Christians that knew him, albeit none who had a proper biblical perspective.
She like Mohammed seems to have moved from being someone who would sacrifice a sheep or two to the idol Al-Uzza (Virgin star goddess and patroness of Mecca who was apparently worshipped for potency in war situations also) to a more monotheistic outlook.
The three most important influences on this development seems to have been cousins of her and Mohammed. The influence of these mens Jewish or Nestorian outlooks seems evident in Mohammed spiritual understandings as expressed in the Quranic suras later also.
Waraqa ibn Nawfal (Nestorian priest), Uthmann ibn Al-Huwayrith (Christian convert and wannabe King of Mecca) and Ubaydallah ibn Jahsh
These three helped to move Mohammed and his wife from a dissatisfaction with the traditional religions of Mecca to a more Monotheistic outlook and introduced him to Heaven, Hell, holy books he could not read for himself and ideas about prophets. There are some stories that Khadija actually became a Christian at this time and later understood Mohammed to be a new sort of Christian prophet. As his wife aged ,about 15 years into his marriage, and about 5 years after the birth of their last child Fatima ( so she was 55 by this time while he was 39), Mohammed was in the habit of meditating in a cave in Mount Hira (610 AD). It was there that he claims to have had his first encounter with the angel Jibreel (Gabriel). He was apparently terrified by these revelations and ran back and asked his wife to cover him. Later he claimed that Jibreel was in their bedroom. Khadija stripped naked and stood between him and the place he said the angel was and tried to seduce him to have sex. Mohammed said the angel left for the sake of modesty and Khadija said that was a proof that the angel was good rather than evil. From then on Mohammed trusted the angels revelations. Over the next 9 years of their marriage she supported his ministry , defending him from attacks, evangelising neighbours and expending much of her fortune supporting the Muslim community against attacks from her increasingly irritated contemporaries in the rich elite of Mecca. By the end of her life as the Muslim community in Mecca grew there was outright hostility to the Muslims and to Mohammeds message.
After she died Mohammed seemed to fall apart spiritually.
1) He never really came up with the deeply spiritual utterances of those first years again in the later suras in Mecca and then in Medina. Indeed these later suras read as rather flat and contrived by comparison the earlier ones which sounded more inspired.
2) He started making war alliances with various tribal leaders and preparing for physical conflict. He started organising Muslims on the lines of a state and an army for God. Indeed his move to Medina 2-3 years after she died was a part of this change in his outlook.
3) He accumulated a host of wives, underaged children with whom he had sex and sex slaves in those later years though interestingly was blessed with no children from any of them.
4) The massacre of the Jewish Banu Qurayza men and the enslaving of the women as slaves (including a sex slave for himself) took place after Khadija.
So I actually have questions myself about the early Mohammed actually seeing an angel that seemed to lead him in a positive direction away from idols and towards the worship of the One true God. As I said some of those early suras reflect a Christian outlook albeit one filtered through a poorly educated and doctrinally messy Nestorian and Jewish set of filters.
There is little to reject in this earlier Meccan sura for instance which reminds me of John the Baptist calling people to repent:
O manl What has seduced thee from thy Lord Most Beneficent? Him Who created thee, fashioned thee in due proportion, and gave thee a just bias; In whatever Form He wills, does He put them together. Nay! But ye do reject Right and Judgment! But verily over you (are appointed angels) to protect you, kind and honourable, writing down (your deeds): They know and understand all that ye do. As for the Righteous, they will be in Bliss; and the Wicked, they will be in the Fire, which they will enter on the Day of Judgment, and they will not be able to keep away therefrom. And what will explain to thee what the Day of Judgment is? Again, what will explain to thee what the Day of Judgment is? (It will be) the Day when no soul shall have power (to do) aught for another: For the Command, that Day, will be (wholly) with God. Surah 82.6-19.
It seems clear that the late Mohammed can be more easily rejected for his child abuse, sex slavery, genocides, more warlike behaviour, attacks on Christians and Jews, false doctrines, obviously borrowed and distorted material, misguided notions about Jesus etc etc. But the early Mohammed , the Mohammed influenced and controlled to a great extent by Khadija, is more attractive from a Christian point of view.
So was there an angel in those early years followed by a whole load of personally and politically contrived revelations afterwards, then all neatly edited by later Caliphs into the Quran and Hadiths we have today. In other words was Mohammed a Christian prophet that went bad?
So some questions to focus the OP
1) Do you agree that there is a profound difference between the Mohammed who was married to Khadija and the later Mohammed?
2) Was Khadija a Christian and was the message of the early Mohammed something that Christians do not have to outright reject but might have even have reflected an honest prophetic gifting and actual encounters with an angel?
3) Why did Mohammed fall apart spiritually after Khadija died?
4) was Mohammed a Christian prophet that went bad?
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