The Danger Of Creedal Thinking (Trinity oversimplification)

Grip Docility · May 22, 2019

The reason I initially made this thread was because an individual attempted to separate Jesus’ Divinity from His Humanity.

The individual was of a specific flavor of belief that reveres creeds.

In hind site, had he read one of the four that @GingerBeer had posted, he wouldn’t have made that blunder.

I maintain that people should never shelve Scripture or allow extra canonical writings to impact their theology....

However, I do see the value of the four creeds noted.

I may seem stubborn, but I learn and wanted to make this known.

GingerBeer · May 22, 2019

Grip Docility said:
The reason I initially made this thread was because an individual attempted to separate Jesus’ Divinity from His Humanity.

The individual was of a specific flavor of belief that reveres creeds.

In hind site, had he read one of the four that @GingerBeer had posted, he wouldn’t have made that blunder.

I maintain that people should never shelve Scripture or allow extr canonical writings to impact their theology....

However, I do see the value of the four creeds noted.

I may seem stubborn, but I learn and wanted to make this known.

Jesus humanity and his divinity are not separable in the person of Jesus Christ. That is why the Chalcedonian statement refers to Mary as the mother of God (theotokos).
The formula says:

We, then, following the holy Fathers, all with one consent, teach men to confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the same perfect in Godhead and also perfect in manhood; truly God and truly man, of a reasonable soul and body; consubstantial with us according to the manhood; in all things like unto us, without sin; begotten before all ages of the Father according to the Godhead, and in these latter days, for us and for our salvation, born of the virgin Mary, the mother of God, according to the manhood; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, unconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one Person and one Subsistence, not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten, God the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ, as the prophets from the beginning have declared concerning him, and the Lord Jesus Christ himself taught us, and the Creed of the holy Fathers has handed down to us.

GodsGrace101 · May 22, 2019

Grip Docility said:
I really appreciate Universalism and wish it were true. I say even God wants it to be true, but he “desires” that none should be lost. God clearly never desired to suffer and He clearly weeps with us when we suffer (John 11:35)

Unfortunately... Some will mock Him and spit in His face just like some did 2000ish years ago.

The trouble is... Spitting in a lions face is a really bad idea.

Universalism takes the idea that God will turn all back to Him, by the end of it all.

I think that sounds beautiful, but it doesn’t really align with scripture.

The Sacrifice Of Jesus was for all, as Death was defeated for all, in the sense that all will be resurrected to something or another. But Universalism goes forward to suggest God will save ALL... and because this seams to be a forceful decree that ignores humanities choices... I am inclined to file it away with... do what you will, Lord, but I’m not seeing your Scripture say this is so.

Agreed.
This is the reason God gave us free will.
He wants us to love Him freely.
AND, He DOES want us to love Him.
It's impossible to understand all of this, but all
other "lights from God" (messages from messengers) speak of the same concepts so we can know that they are true.

So, even not understanding, we just accept what Jesus taught and pray for those who do not believe and are not in tune with God Almightly for the salvation of their souls.

But, certainly, if one spits in God's face, as you've said, he surely will not be with God.

I see calvinism and universalism as opposite poles.
One can accept an unloving and unmerciful and unjust God....the other cannot accept a justful God, but only one that is wholly loving and merciful even to those that hate Him.

(I've lost sight of the O.P.!)

GodsGrace101 · May 22, 2019

David Cabrera said:
Sola Scriptura does not necessarily mean dependence on the Bible. Orthodox and Catholic use the Bible a lot in their services and teachings but they understand there is an authority to get the correct understanding.

What does sola scriptura mean?
It means the bible alone is the authority, no?

Orthodox and Catholic use the bible but have an authority to exeget it, which would be the magisterium.

I think the bible alone is fine for authority...
the problem is that WHO will PROPERLY exegete it for us? (protestants).

GodsGrace101 · May 22, 2019

Grip Docility said:
The reason I initially made this thread was because an individual attempted to separate Jesus’ Divinity from His Humanity.

The individual was of a specific flavor of belief that reveres creeds.

In hind site, had he read one of the four that @GingerBeer had posted, he wouldn’t have made that blunder.

I maintain that people should never shelve Scripture or allow extra canonical writings to impact their theology....

However, I do see the value of the four creeds noted.

I may seem stubborn, but I learn and wanted to make this known.

Jesus cannot be separated from His Christianity...there were different heresies at the beginning of Christianity that had to be rejected and the creeds specifically were for this reason.

They specifically say that Jesus is God's begotten Son [unique son] and that He became flesh and blood for us (conceived by the Virgin Mary).

IF there is any doubt in reading scripture...the creeds certainly confirm this.

Concord1968 · May 22, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:
What does sola scriptura mean?
It means the bible alone is the authority, no?

Orthodox and Catholic use the bible but have an authority to exeget it, which would be the magisterium.

I think the bible alone is fine for authority...
the problem is that WHO will PROPERLY exegete it for us? (protestants).

What Sola Scriptura is: The Bible is the only INFALLIBLE authority for faith and practice.
What Sola Scriptura is NOT: The Bible is the ONLY authority for faith and morals period.

GodsGrace101 · May 22, 2019

James Murphy said:
What Sola Scriptura is: The Bible is the only INFALLIBLE authority for faith and practice.
What Sola Scriptura is NOT: The Bible is the ONLY authority for faith and morals period.

I don't understand what you just posted....
Please explain what sola scriptura is not.

Concord1968 · May 22, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:
I don't understand what you just posted....
Please explain what sola scriptura is not.

Sola Scriptura is not the Bible is the ONLY authority. Sola Scriptura is the Bible is the only INFALLIBLE authority.

Protestant reformers like Martin Luther allowed for other sources of authority, such as the early church fathers. They just tested them that they didn't conflict with scripture.

Grip Docility · May 22, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:
Jesus cannot be separated from His Christianity...there were different heresies at the beginning of Christianity that had to be rejected and the creeds specifically were for this reason.

They specifically say that Jesus is God's begotten Son [unique son] and that He became flesh and blood for us (conceived by the Virgin Mary).

IF there is any doubt in reading scripture...the creeds certainly confirm this.

Amen! Jesus is indeed our Advocate. That’s why it upset me so bad when the individual attempted to make Him two separate people in one body!

Anyhow... yes... Thank God for Scripture that spells it all out clearly.

Clearly, as long as people aren’t deceived by false doctrine about Who Jesus is.

GodsGrace101 · May 22, 2019

James Murphy said:
Sola Scriptura is not the Bible is the ONLY authority. Sola Scriptura is the Bible is the only INFALLIBLE authority.

Protestant reformers like Martin Luther allowed for other sources of authority, such as the early church fathers. They just tested them that they didn't conflict with scripture.

Oh. I understand.
Like the Westminster Catchism would be another source of authority....

But all checked against the bible.
Agreed!

Concord1968 · May 22, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:
Oh. I understand.
Like the Westminster Catchism would be another source of authority....

But all checked against the bible.
Agreed!

Pretty much!

Baby shark doo doo doo doo doo doo.....

GodsGrace101 · May 22, 2019

James Murphy said:
Pretty much!

Baby shark doo doo doo doo doo doo.....

Splain!

Concord1968 · May 22, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:
Splain!

Just feeling goofy lol.....

You've never heard of "Baby Shark"?

GodsGrace101 · May 22, 2019

James Murphy said:
Just feeling goofy lol.....

You've never heard of "Baby Shark"?

Look where I live!

I'm culturally deprived!

This is what I thought of your YouTube:

IT WAS A BLAST !!!

thecolorsblend · May 22, 2019

Grip Docility said:
but if a person desires to assist others and they are simply under the teachings of a creed of some sort, without intensive Biblical searching and study... they should probably either get hot and study, or leave that subject attached to an “I believe” button of sorts and refrain from commenting on the matter.

This viewpoint is absolutely ahistorical. The entire purpose of Christian creeds was an attempt to distill the most crucial elements of what the Church teaches and believes into an easy-to-memorize verse. That is a useful thing to have in the ancient world where most people were illiterate and couldn't read Sacred Scripture for themselves.

Not David · May 22, 2019

The Sola Scriptura is the only infallible source but "we look at the fathers authority unless it conflicts with the Bible" is practically the same issue. One can say this Father was right, and this one was wrong and you still end up with 3 Lutheran denominations (ELCA, LCMS, WELS).

Grip Docility · May 22, 2019

thecolorsblend said:
This viewpoint is absolutely ahistorical. The entire purpose of Christian creeds was an attempt to distill the most crucial elements of what the Church teaches and believes into an easy-to-memorize verse. That is a useful thing to have in the ancient world where most people were illiterate and couldn't read Sacred Scripture for themselves.

I Understand..

Later on, I ended up posting this...

Grip Docility said:
The reason I initially made this thread was because an individual attempted to separate Jesus’ Divinity from His Humanity.

The individual was of a specific flavor of belief that reveres creeds.

In hind site, had he read one of the four that @GingerBeer had posted, he wouldn’t have made that blunder.

I maintain that people should never shelve Scripture or allow extra canonical writings to impact their theology....

However, I do see the value of the four creeds noted.

I may seem stubborn, but I learn and wanted to make this known.

Grip Docility · May 22, 2019

David Cabrera said:
The Sola Scriptura is the only infallible source but "we look at the fathers authority unless it conflicts with the Bible" is practically the same issue. One can say this Father was right, and this one was wrong and you still end up with 3 Lutheran denominations (ELCA, LCMS, WELS).

This is a painful fact.

GodsGrace101 · May 23, 2019

thecolorsblend said:
This viewpoint is absolutely ahistorical. The entire purpose of Christian creeds was an attempt to distill the most crucial elements of what the Church teaches and believes into an easy-to-memorize verse. That is a useful thing to have in the ancient world where most people were illiterate and couldn't read Sacred Scripture for themselves.

They couldn't read it for themselves CB...
but they certainly could have had it preached to them in its entirety and truthfulness.

Did you know that not even priests were illiterate or theologically knowledgeable in a large part of Christian history?

thecolorsblend · May 23, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:
but they certainly could have had it preached to them in its entirety and truthfulness.

Or the core doctrines and teachings from Sacred Scripture could be codified into an easily memorized creed so that the illiterate faithful would still be able to express their faith.

The Danger Of Creedal Thinking (Trinity oversimplification)

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