Jesus came to FREE His precious BACs from sinning!

Neogaia777 · May 22, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:
We have a basic problem between us....
I believe that the bible and Jesus taught that it is us, individually, that decide if we wish to serve God and be saved...

Since it is US that decides, we know we have free will and with that free will we can choose to accept God and at any time in the future, for whatever reason, we can decide to abandon God.

Since it is US that choose...those choosing for God can be assured of their salvation as long as they remain IN CHRIST.

So our Salvation is dependent upon us and our own works or efforts, ect....? We get some credit concerning our own saving...? Doesn't that take away from Grace, or the "free gift" of Salvation...?

We have the "appearance or illusion of choices", nothing more...

That we have "no choice but in which to function or make choices in as if we have choices", but, do we really...?

God Bless!

GodsGrace101 · May 22, 2019

Hammster said:
The problem is that you assume that a true believer (and scripture talks about true and false believers) will ever stop believing. That same Paul who wrote Colossians also wrote this:

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?
32 He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?
33 Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.
34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died-more than that, who was raised-who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?
36 As it is written, "For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered."
37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers,
39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:31-39

Why would we ever think that Christ would stop interceding for us? Why would we think He’s ever lose even one person given to Him by His Father? Why would we think the Great Shepherd would lose even one sheep? It’s just not possible. I wish I could make you see that so that you could rest in the gospel and just enjoy being His child instead of trying to do enough to stay in His good graces.

You don't have the proper picture of my spiritual life.
I rest in God's love. I LOVE being His child. I don't try to do enough to stay in His graces....I KNOW for sure that I'm in His graces. I don't presume to know your life in our Lord -- why do you presume to know mine?

As to your verses...I'll go through them:

Romans 8:31-39
31What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us?
32He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?
33Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies;

No comment is necessary for verses 31 and 32.
verse 33
Who are God's elect? Elect just means chosen...those that God has chosen for Himself.
God chooses us based on HIS conditions...if we meet His conditions we will be chosen by Him.
What is the condition:
Believe in His Son for our redemption.
Philippians 3:9
Acts 16:30-31
Acts 2:21

34who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us.
35Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

None of the above can separate us from God.
God will never leave us or forsake us.
It's US that can leave Him and forsake Him.

36Just as it is written,
“FOR YOUR SAKE WE ARE BEING PUT TO DEATH ALL DAY LONG;
WE WERE CONSIDERED AS SHEEP TO BE SLAUGHTERED.”

37But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.

We should be ready to accept everything for God...even death...because we are like sheep going to the slaughter...but we can overcome through Jesus...who died for us.

38For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
39nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Amen. The above is true because God so loved His creation that He gave His only Son to save those who would believe in Him.

Neogaia777 · May 22, 2019

Neogaia777 said:
We have the "appearance or illusion of choices", nothing more...

Other than (this) (above), it is a "program" and has to run it's course...

God Bless!

Hammster · May 22, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:
You don't have the proper picture of my spiritual life.
I rest in God's love. I LOVE being His child. I don't try to do enough to stay in His graces....I KNOW for sure that I'm in His graces. I don't presume to know your life in our Lord -- why do you presume to know mine?

As to your verses...I'll go through them:

Romans 8:31-39
31What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us?
32He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?
33Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies;

No comment is necessary for verses 31 and 32.
verse 33
Who are God's elect? Elect just means chosen...those that God has chosen for Himself.
God chooses us based on HIS conditions...if we meet His conditions we will be chosen by Him.
What is the condition:
Believe in His Son for our redemption.
Philippians 3:9
Acts 16:30-31
Acts 2:21

34who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us.
35Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

None of the above can separate us from God.
God will never leave us or forsake us.
It's US that can leave Him and forsake Him.

36Just as it is written,
“FOR YOUR SAKE WE ARE BEING PUT TO DEATH ALL DAY LONG;
WE WERE CONSIDERED AS SHEEP TO BE SLAUGHTERED.”

37But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.

We should be ready to accept everything for God...even death...because we are like sheep going to the slaughter...but we can overcome through Jesus...who died for us.

38For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
39nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Amen. The above is true because God so loved His creation that He gave His only Son to save those who would believe in Him.

So you think that, despite the fact that Paul says nothing can separate us, we can separate us? God is bigger than even us.

GodsGrace101 · May 22, 2019

Neogaia777 said:
So our Salvation is dependent upon us and our own works or efforts, ect....? We get some credit concerning our own saving...? Doesn't that take away from Grace, or the "free gift" of Salvation...?

We have the "appearance or illusion of choices", nothing more...

That we have "no choice but in which to function or make choices in as if we have choices", but, do we really...?

God Bless!

Did I mention works?

There is only ONE way to be saved:
To believe on the name of Jesus.
John 3:16
Acts 2:21

We are saved by God's grace,,,through the instrument of faith...
Ephesians 2:8

Our salvation is dependent on JESUS...
He was hanging on the cross....not me.
The only way I can be saved is to trust my soul to Him.

As to taking away from God's grace...
We are not able to take ANYTHING away from God.
He is sovereign and almighty...the creator of the universe....and I doubt God is worried about our taking anything away from Him...including His glory.
Anyone that believes this believes in a very weak God that goes around worrying about His glory all the time.

As to the appearance of choice....
Is it possible for you to show me compatible free will from the bible?
No.
Because it does not exist.

God gave us TRUE free will - libertarian free will.
The bible is chock full of verses that show we have a free will to make moral choices.

Here's just one:

Philemon 14
14but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will.

Neogaia777 · May 22, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:
Did I mention works?

There is only ONE way to be saved:
To believe on the name of Jesus.
John 3:16
Acts 2:21

We are saved by God's grace,,,through the instrument of faith...
Ephesians 2:8

Our salvation is dependent on JESUS...
He was hanging on the cross....not me.
The only way I can be saved is to trust my soul to Him.

As to taking away from God's grace...
We are not able to take ANYTHING away from God.
He is sovereign and almighty...the creator of the universe....and I doubt God is worried about our taking anything away from Him...including His glory.
Anyone that believes this believes in a very weak God that goes around worrying about His glory all the time.

As to the appearance of choice....
Is it possible for you to show me compatible free will from the bible?
No.
Because it does not exist.

God gave us TRUE free will - libertarian free will.
The bible is chock full of verses that show we have a free will to make moral choices.

Here's just one:

Philemon 14
14but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will.

When your talking about actions or decisions on our part or choices that either earn or maintain, or cause us to keep and not lose, our salvation, then, yeah, you talked about "works", in so many ways...

God Bless!

GodsGrace101 · May 22, 2019

Hammster said:
So you think that, despite the fact that Paul says nothing can separate us, we can separate us? God is bigger than even us.

H,
It's because I believe in real free will.
God wants real love...not make believe forced love.
What kind of a god would want make believe love?
Even as humans we don't want that.

The only way to get that is to allow free will.
So, yes, God will NEVER leave us or forsake us...
However, WE are totally free to leave Him....

2 Timothy 2:12
12If we endure, we will also reign with Him;
If we deny Him, He also will deny us;

Neogaia777 · May 22, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:
Did I mention works?

There is only ONE way to be saved:
To believe on the name of Jesus.
John 3:16
Acts 2:21

We are saved by God's grace,,,through the instrument of faith...
Ephesians 2:8

Our salvation is dependent on JESUS...
He was hanging on the cross....not me.
The only way I can be saved is to trust my soul to Him.

As to taking away from God's grace...
We are not able to take ANYTHING away from God.
He is sovereign and almighty...the creator of the universe....and I doubt God is worried about our taking anything away from Him...including His glory.
Anyone that believes this believes in a very weak God that goes around worrying about His glory all the time.

As to the appearance of choice....
Is it possible for you to show me compatible free will from the bible?
No.
Because it does not exist.

God gave us TRUE free will - libertarian free will.
The bible is chock full of verses that show we have a free will to make moral choices.

Here's just one:

Philemon 14
14but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will.

We lay down our will for His and His takes over, but that could have been already predetermined by us that we would do that...?

You say God is Sovereign, talk about how powerful and great He is, but yet deny His Sovereignty and His Omniscience...? You may not fully realize that's what you are doing, but that is what you are doing...

If it's dependent upon us at all, then it is not dependent on God 100%, and that does not sit right with me... Takes away from Grace, and the "free gift", ect... That the free gift is not really free, ect...

God Bless!

Blade · May 22, 2019

My brother.. I pray you don't mind I ADD the below ... and we should know this.. I do.. and with some help from a site..

He came to reveal Gods glory, John 1 14,
To be loved by Gods Children John 8 42,
To satisfy our deepest thirst John 4 13-14.
To be the second Adam rom 5 14-15.
To be a merciful and faithful high priest Heb 2 17-18.
To restore human nature to holiness Luke 1 35.
To reign as king Isa 9 6-7.
To make us partakers of the divine nature 2Pet 1 4
To give us the spirit of adoption John 14 16-17
To bind up the broken hearted. Isa 61 1-3.
To bring a sword Mat 10 34. To serve Mark 10 45.
To seek and save the lost Luke 19 5, 9-10.
To die John 12 24=27.
To call the sinner to repent Mark 2 17.
To reveal Gods love for the sinners John 3 16.
To give his life a ransom for many Mark 10 45.
To bring judgement John 9 39-41
To preach the gospel Luke 4 18-19,42 Isa 61 1-2.
To demonstrate true humility Phil 2 5-8.
To bring great joy luke 2 10
To receive worship Math 2 1-2,11
To give eternal life. John 6 51 T
To destory the devil and his works 1 john 3 8.
To bear witness to the truth john 18 37.
To be made like His people Heb 2 14-17.
To brign light to a dark world John 15 22
To save sinners Heb 9 26.
To do the will of the Father. Heb 10 7

Hammster · May 22, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:
H,
It's because I believe in real free will.
God wants real love...not make believe forced love.
What kind of a god would want make believe love?
Even as humans we don't want that.

The only way to get that is to allow free will.
So, yes, God will NEVER leave us or forsake us...
However, WE are totally free to leave Him....

2 Timothy 2:12
12If we endure, we will also reign with Him;
If we deny Him, He also will deny us;

*sigh*.

I guess Paul missed that part when he said nothing with separate us. I guess Jesus isn’t really a Great Shepherd. Heck, not even a good one, really. Time to get rid of Psalm 23. And Jesus can’t raise up on the last day all the Father has given Him, I’m not sure how trustworthy He is. If the Father can’t rely on Him, how can I?

GodsGrace101 · May 22, 2019

Neogaia777 said:
When your talking about actions or decisions on our part or choices that either earn or maintain, or cause us to keep and not lose, our salvation, then, yeah, you talked about "works", in so many ways...

God Bless!

I DO believe our good deeds keep us saved.
Jesus and Paul and the other writers taught this...
not me.

Works are indeed necessary as per the N.T. writers
and Jesus Himself:

Neogaia777 · May 22, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:
H,
It's because I believe in real free will.
God wants real love...not make believe forced love.
What kind of a god would want make believe love?
Even as humans we don't want that.

The only way to get that is to allow free will.
So, yes, God will NEVER leave us or forsake us...
However, WE are totally free to leave Him....

2 Timothy 2:12
12If we endure, we will also reign with Him;
If we deny Him, He also will deny us;

Why would it be make believe, when it would only mean He made us to Love, You act like He needs our Love, when He does not, it is totally and 100% for our benefit and our benefit alone to love ourselves, others, and Him, ect...

I suspect you don't like the idea, because of your own rebellion, and possibly wanting to worship a God you made in your own image and likeness, ect, that sits well with you, and your thinking, and your ideas (of who God is and is not), and that you are comfortable with, ect...

A God you made or created for yourself...

Ponder omniscience/sovereignty from the beginning, and think and dwell on it a while and see what you come up with OK...?

It will tear down any images of false gods that are not gods that you may have and will lead you into truth and a knowledge and knowing of the true God, ect...

God Bless!

Neogaia777 · May 22, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:
I DO believe our good deeds keep us saved.
Jesus and Paul and the other writers taught this...
not me.

Works are indeed necessary as per the N.T. writers
and Jesus Himself:

You believe in works based salvation, k, got it, I think were done here...

God Bless!

Neogaia777 · May 22, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:
I DO believe our good deeds keep us saved.
Jesus and Paul and the other writers taught this...
not me.

Works are indeed necessary as per the N.T. writers
and Jesus Himself:

These are things you will do if you are truly saved, but they do not save you, or keep you saved or earn or secure your salvation, or whatever...

God Bless!

GodsGrace101 · May 22, 2019

@Neogaia777

Oops...

Pick up our cross daily to follow Him

Mathew 16:24

Luke 9:23

Do works of mercy and charity

Matthew 19:21

Matthew 25:31-46

Luke 18:22

Obey His commandments

John 14:15

John 15:10

Do the will of the Father

Matthew 7:21

James 1:22

Neogaia777 · May 22, 2019

Neogaia777 said:
These are things you will do if you are truly saved, but they do not save you, or keep you saved or earn or secure your salvation, or whatever...

God Bless!

But no man should judge (another man) by these things, or in these things either... That is between them and God, and we need to let God be the judge...

Judging the state of another's salvation in any form, or at any given time is never wise...

God Bless!

Neogaia777 · May 22, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:
@Neogaia777

Oops...

Pick up our cross daily to follow Him

Mathew 16:24

Luke 9:23

Do works of mercy and charity

Matthew 19:21

Matthew 25:31-46

Luke 18:22

Obey His commandments

John 14:15

John 15:10

Do the will of the Father

Matthew 7:21

James 1:22

Do you do all these things...? or fully obey every command, or the entire gospel fully and perfectly...?

GodsGrace101 · May 22, 2019

Hammster said:
*sigh*.

I guess Paul missed that part when he said nothing with separate us. I guess Jesus isn’t really a Great Shepherd. Heck, not even a good one, really. Time to get rid of Psalm 23. And Jesus can’t raise up on the last day all the Father has given Him, I’m not sure how trustworthy He is. If the Father can’t rely on Him, how can I?

Is this what's known as goading?
or flaming?

No need for the sarcasm.
I've posted scripture for everything I've said.

I'm posting the N.T. NOT what I believe but what the N.T. teaches.

Do you put a pill in your wife's coffee every night so she could love you?

Or do you prefer that she love you freely?

No need for a response.

GodsGrace101 · May 22, 2019

Neogaia777 said:
Why would it be make believe, when it would only mean He made us to Love, You act like He needs our Love, when He does not, it is totally and 100% for our benefit and our benefit alone to love ourselves, others, and Him, ect...

I suspect you don't like the idea, because of your own rebellion, and possibly wanting to worship a God you made in your own image and likeness, ect, that sits well with you, and your thinking, and your ideas (of who God is and is not), and that you are comfortable with, ect...

A God you made or created for yourself...

Ponder omniscience/sovereignty from the beginning, and think and dwell on it a while and see what you come up with OK...?

It will tear down any images of false gods that are not gods that you may have and will lead you into truth and a knowledge and knowing of the true God, ect...

God Bless!

Ditto.

Of course.

GodsGrace101 · May 22, 2019

Neogaia777 said:
Do you do all these things...? or fully obey every command, or the entire gospel fully and perfectly...?

Oh so now YOU are making up a god?

Who said anything about perfect?

Jesus came to FREE His precious BACs from sinning!

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