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still waiting.One passage. If it takes all of that, then it’s a poor argument.
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still waiting.One passage. If it takes all of that, then it’s a poor argument.
Not sure why your waiting for brother? You have been provided a mountain of scripture already in post # 124 linked for your convenience.still waiting.
Okay, I’ll pick a passage at random.Not sure why your waiting for you brother. You have been provided a mountain of scripture already in post # 124 linked for your convenience.
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Ok brother I might leave this between you and God to work through now. Nice to talk to you. I have some work to do so might pop back in latter. If your not able to respond to the scriptures provided to you in the linked post above and the questions asked of you I will leave that between you and God and maybe we should agree to disagree.
I hope our discussion has in the very least given you something to think and pray about. All the scriptures provided brother are God's not mine and have only been sent in love and as a help to you.
My prayer is to see you and everyone else here in God's Kingdom.
May God bless you as you seek him prayerfully through his Word bye for now
Humbly I respond , always consider who or what group the Lord is talking to.How is lusting after a women in your heart less sinful then committing adultery when JESUS says those who do this have already sinned *MATTHEW 5:20-28?
Jesus came to save us from sin, not to continue in it. The gospel is the power of God unto salvation to everyone why BELIEVES. The Gospel does not save us in sin to continue in it but from sin to walk with God *JOHN 8:31-36; ROMANS 1:4-6; 1 PETER 1:5; ROMANS 1:4; 1 CORINTHIANS 1:18; 1 CORINTHIANS 1:24; 2:5; 1 CORINTHAINS 4:20.
JESUS came to MAGNIFY the LAW and make it honroable in fullfillment of the scriptures...
ISAIAH 42:21 [21] The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honorable.
We read of this here...
MATTHEW 5:17-28
[17], THINK NOT THAT I HAVE COME TO DESTROY THE LAW, OR THE PROHETS: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. [18], For truly I say to you, Till heaven and earth pass, one stroke or one pronunciation mark shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. [19], Whoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. [20], For I say to you, That EXCEPT YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS EXCEEDS THE RIGHTOUESNESS OF THE SCRIBES AND PHARISEES YOU SHALL IN NO WISE IENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. [21], You have heard that it was said of them of old time, You shall not kill; and whoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: [22], But I say to you, That whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whoever shall say, You fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. [27], You have heard that it was said by them of old time, You shall not commit adultery: [28], But I say to you, That whoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart.
JESUS came to magnify the LAW from the INSIDE OUT quoting MATTHEW 5:17-32 (thoughts and feelings) in fulfillment of *ISAIAH 42:21. This is to show that unless our RIGHTOUESNESS EXCEEDS the RIGHTOUESNESS of the Scribes and Pharisees we can in no way enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN. Jesus is saying the problem runs deeper then outward observance to the 10 Commandments. EVIL begins in the HEART. BREAKING GOD's 10 COMMANDMENTS from the heart defile a man *MATTHEW 15:18-19. JESUS is saying we can be outwardly perfect and blameless like the Scribes and Pharisee but inwardly like dead mans bones *MATTHEW 23:27-28. JESUS magnified the LAW to the INSIDE OUT. To show us that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour and that sin originates in the HEART (thoughts and feelings). That is why we have the NEW COVENANT promise and need to be BORN AGAIN by Faith in God's WORD for salvation to be free from SIN (breaking any one of God's 10 commandments) *HEBREWS 8:10-12; 1 JOHN 3:3-10.
If we are not BORN AGAIN into the NEW COVENANT promise and continue in it we will not enter the kingdom of Heaven *1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 2:3-4. ALL those who KNOWINGLY break any one of God's 10 commandments stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. All those who KNOWINGLY CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into God's KINGDOM *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23.
RIGHTESOUSNESS comes from LOVE because LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW and the very expression of what LOVE is *ROMANS 13:8-10. He that does not LOVE does not KNOW GOD for GOD IS LOVE * 1 JOHN 4:8. All those who are BORN AGAIN have a NEW HEART TO LOVE and FOLLOW GOD *1 JOHN 4:7. This is the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Those who are BORN AGAIN do not practice SIN (breaking God's Commandments) *1 JOHN 3:4-9. This is why JOHN finishes on this subject by saying; For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous *1 JOHN 5:3 and is why JESUS says IF you LOVE me KEEP my commandments *JOHN 14:15. UNLESS we are BORN AGAIN under the NEW COVENANT to LOVE we will not enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *JOHN 3:3-7. We need to be changed from the INSIDE OUT and this is why we need to be BORN AGAIN through faith to LOVE. This is the NEW COVENANT promise to all those who BELIEVE God's WORD *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10; ROMANS 3:31; GALATIANS 5:16; 1 JOHN 2:1-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-10. God's WORD is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes.
God bless.
Humbly I respond , always consider who or what group the Lord is talking to.
Im not saying anything i just repeated what John saysAre you saying that if anyone ever sins at all after they are saved, then they are not yet saved? 1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God practices sin.. (NASB) This describes the practice as habitual, as one's lifestyle or bent of life. It does not mean that those who are saved will never again sin at all. Believers/children of God practice righteousness and not sin (1 John 3:9-10)
Amen!Im not saying anything i just repeated what John says. He did not say (nor did i) that if a person commits one sin they are not saved.
How does "habitual" deny free will? The one who practices sin (continues in sin as a willful, habitual lifestyle) has exercised their free will to do so.He said if they continue in the practice of sin
.. I.e. to keep doing that sinful deed and action over and over... They are not saved they are still a slave to thier sin they are not serving Christ yet they are serving thier flesh and sin .
So yes..it speaks of practice. but using the word " habitual" is a misdirection because it denies free will .if they do it habitualky then they are not yet free.
Saved and freed are the same thing.
The unrighteous who practice sin are certainly in a frightening state! (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21)Many people say they are saved..but if they Are, then sin actually has no power over them to MAKE them do evil works. But yes, that means they are CHOOSING to keep doing that action they know is sin and that is a frightening state to be in. They MUST repent from doing so.
We must repent and believe the gospel in order to be saved (Acts 3:19; 11:17,18; Romans 1:16) and those who have done so, no longer practice sin, but practice righteousness. (1 John 3:9,10)They must meet Gods requirements and when they do he meets them with full mercy. But if they refise to turn away from doing sin only the wrath of Gods awaits them because they have refused the good news of JESUS.
You’ve tried to link the Matthew passage with 1 John. Let’s look at that.MATTHEW 7:21-23 [21], NOT EVERYONE THAT SAYS TO ME LORD. LORD SHALL ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN BUT HE THAT DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER IN HEAVEN. [22],Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works? [23], And THEN I WILL PROFESS TO THEM, I NEVER KNEW YOU DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO WORK INIQUITY (sin).
The scriptures here are the words of JESUS that say those who work sin will not enter into God's Kingdom and the reason they did not enter into God's KINGDOM was because they made an occupation (practice) of working sin. These are the words of JESUS brother they are not mine.
We can link also link v23 on NOT KNOWING God to 1 JOHN 2:3-4. How do we know if we KNOW God
Here’s the problem with your understanding. It doesn’t say what you want it to say. It does NOT say that if we are unrepentant of our sins, we become God’s adversaries. It says that there’s no more sacrifice for those who sin willfully after receiving knowledge of the truth. Nothing about known sins, or repenting from known sins. So this, like the previous passage I addressed, is even a misunderstanding as much as it’s a misdirection.HEBREWS 10:26-27 [26], FOR IF WE SIN WILLFULLY AFTER THAT WE RECEIVE A KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS, [27], But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Yep seems like those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN are God's Adversaries who will receive the judgments of God. Do you think these people will enter into God's Kingdom
This one’s easy.1 CORINTHIANS 6:9-10 [9], KNOW YOU NOT THAT THE UNRIGHTEOUS SHALL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, [10], Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortionists, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Yep once again seem like those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not inherit the KINGDOM of HEAVEN
What did you did?
Okay. I mean, there’s nothing in there about falling away. But, I can’t convince you otherwise.What did you did?
No you did not !
I wrote to you re Colossians 1:21-23
and this is what you answered on post no. 97, which you've highlighted above:
Hammster said:
"He’s talking about true believers. True believers will continue in the faith. When they wander, the Father disciplines. When they wander, the Shepherd retrieved them. The Good Shepherd would lose none that the Father gives Him."
Paul is talking about true believers...OK.
BUT, he says that they will be presented holy and blameless and beyong reproach (to God Father) IF indeed they CONTINUE in the faith.
Clearly this means that we can fall away from the faith...Paul and Jesus both say this. I would tend to agree with them....
Colossians 1:21-23 says that it IS possible to wander away from the faith and that the believer will thus NOT be presented to God Father as holy and blameless because they did not remain IN CHRIST.
Colossians 1:21-23
21And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,
22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—
23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.
Responding to different verses does not represent an exegesis of the above 3 verse in Colossians.
IF one continues in the faith...Okay. I mean, there’s nothing in there about falling away. But, I can’t convince you otherwise.
If one is predestined by God to continue in the faith, otherwise did he ever have the faith, that was a gift from God by predestining them for it in the first place...IF one continues in the faith...
means that it's possible to NOT continue in the faith.
IF makes the statement conditional on an action.
In this case, we must continue in our faith in order to be presented holy and blameless to God the Father.
It's fine if you don't care to continue.
But some verses are so clear I'm always amazed at how they are not clear to everyone.
Oh..what i meant is that Before they are saved scripture says we were "prisoners" to sin .a prisoner cant just walk away ...How does "habitual" deny free will? The one who practices sin (continues in sin as a willful, habitual lifestyle) has exercised their free will to do so.
The problem is that you assume that a true believer (and scripture talks about true and false believers) will ever stop believing. That same Paul who wrote Colossians also wrote this:IF one continues in the faith...
means that it's possible to NOT continue in the faith.
IF makes the statement conditional on an action.
In this case, we must continue in our faith in order to be presented holy and blameless to God the Father.
It's fine if you don't care to continue.
But some verses are so clear I'm always amazed at how they are not clear to everyone.
We have a basic problem between us....If one is predestined by God to continue in the faith, otherwise did he ever have the faith, that was a gift from God by predestining them for it in the first place...
Which would mean it's not really conditional for us or based on us kind of thing, but God... Which is why it's a gift, and cannot be earned or attained to... Either you are one of His, and have always been one of His, by "His choosing" or His predestining, or your not, and if your not, you never really were...
God Bless!
Lord lord....You’ve tried to link the Matthew passage with 1 John. Let’s look at that.
First, you say that “The scriptures here are the words of JESUS that say those who work sin will not enter into God's Kingdom and the reason they did not enter into God's KINGDOM was because they made an occupation (practice) of working sin.“. Except Jesus didn’t say that. He never said those things were sin. Jesus cast out demons. Jesus prophesied. Jesus did many wonderful works. How can those things be sin? So two problems with your understanding. One, He did not say in that passage that those who work will not enter the kingdom. And two, He did not call what they did sinful.
Next is your connection to 1 John. You say “We can link also link v23 on NOT KNOWING God to 1 JOHN 2:3-4. How do we know if we KNOW God”. Here’s the problem. Jesus didn’t send them away for NOT knowing Him. He sent them away because He did not know them. You even made it all caps and red letters. So to say that it’s because they didn’t know Him, and then link it to 1 John, is a misdirection.
So what is happening here? Just like now, there were false teachers. There were those who prophesied falsely. There were those did fake miracles. But there were (and are now) people who think that it’s because of what they did that will get them in. Anything not done in faith is sin. So if they did these things, and Christ called them sinful, then they were not done in faith. Which means they had no faith in Christ. So they were unbelievers.
So we have to ask, how could an omniscient God not know them? Obviously, He knows who they are. But there’s no affectionate, loving knowledge. There’s no Father/child knowledge. There’s no husband/wife knowledge. There’s no Shepherd/sheep knowledge. Jesus loves those the Father gives Him, and so there is an intimate knowledge. If we are to link a verse here, I think Romans 8:29 is a better connection. “Those He foreknew”. He foreknew those whom He would conform to the image of His Son. That’s a loving phrase right there.
But anyway, I have shown how you’ve mishandled this passage, and given a much more reasonable explanation of the intent. I don’t expect you to interact with this, but hopefully it will give others pause before they buy what you are selling.