The Works of the Law

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Jesus was preaching the gospel of the kingdom to Israel. John the Baptist also preached the gospel of the kingdom, which was, "..Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matthew 3:2) This shows that before the cross, the content of the gospel that Paul taught and came to him through a revelation of Jesus Christ (Galatians 1:11-12) was still a mystery.

Ephesians 3:1 - For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles— 2 if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, 7 of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power. 8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ.

That was not the content of the gospel which the twelve, John the Baptist, and Jesus Christ were preaching before the cross, yet they were still preaching the gospel of the kingdom to Israel.

Jesus Christ sent the twelve to preach only to Israel. Matthew 10:5 - These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ The disciples were specifically told to go only to the people of Israel, and they were not yet preaching anything about the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

In Matthew 16:15, Jesus Christ asked His disciples, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

Now Peter had no clue that Jesus Christ would be crucified and resurrected, yet He did believe that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the living God. This is obvious when, only moments later, Peter rebukes Jesus Christ for saying he will be killed, and be raised again the third day" (Matthew 16:21). In verse 22, "..Peter took him and began to rebuke him, saying, “Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!”

Before his death, Jesus told His 12 disciples that he had to die and that he would rise again on the third day. Looking back on passage we see it's unquestionable that the disciples were ignorant of its meaning.

“Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem,…And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken. – Luke 18:31-34.

Now that's strange if the content of the gospel that came through a revelation of Jesus Christ to Paul and was a mystery prior to that has the same content as the gospel of the kingdom before the cross. *This is where we need to RIGHTLY DIVIDE THE WORD OF TRUTH.

After his crucifixion, instead of anxiously waiting his resurrection, the disciples were still ignorant, disheartened at the death of their Messiah, and did not even believe the testimony at first of his resurrection (Mark 16:14, Luke 24:19-24).

It was not until after his resurrection that Jesus appeared to the apostles and opened their understanding (Luke 24:44-47).

In 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, we see the gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. In this age, there is a distinctive element to the content of the gospel which is called "the mystery of the gospel" (Ephesians 6:19; Colossians 1:26-27; 4:3). This new revelation that Paul received is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the same body, and fellow partakers of the promise through the gospel (Ephesians 3:6). Such equality, Jew and Gentile united together in one body (the body of Christ) was previously unknown. The distinctive message of the Church is that Jews and Gentiles alike may believe the gospel and be united together into ONE BODY (Ephesians 1:13; 1 Corinthians 12:13).

*Sigh* Please read Acts chapters 2-4. We see the apostles preach both the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ.

For they were witnesses of Christ's resurrection.

In Acts 11, Peter tells the other Jewish believers in Christ about how God sent him to Cornelius's house (Who was a Gentile) and this was the sign to the Jews from God of the inclusion of the Gentiles into God's salvation program. Paul did not preach to Cornelius. Peter told Cornelius of Christ's death and resurrection (Acts of the Apostles 10:39-40). So the gospel of Christ's death and resurrection was not revealed to Paul first. The 12 had it first. We see that they had it at Pentecost. So sometimes between Christ's return with the disciples for 40 days, and Pentecost, the disciples must have learned of the full entire gospel message from Jesus. This was not another gospel, but the same one they preached but with more details.
 
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Danthemailman

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*Sigh* Please read Acts chapters 2-4. We see the apostles preach both the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ.

For they were witnesses of Christ's resurrection.

In Acts 11, Peter tells the other Jewish believers in Christ about how God sent him to Cornelius's house (Who was a Gentile) and this was the sign to the Jews from God of the inclusion of the Gentiles into God's salvation program. Paul did not preach to Cornelius. Peter told Cornelius of Christ's death and resurrection (Acts of the Apostles 10:39-40). So the gospel of Christ's death and resurrection was not revealed to Paul first. The 12 had it first. We see that they had it at Pentecost. So sometimes between Christ's return with the disciples for 40 days, and Pentecost, the disciples must have learned of the full entire gospel message from Jesus. This was not another gospel, but the same one they preached but with more details.
Why the *Sigh*? Peter told Cornelius of Christ's death and resurrection in Acts 10, after he had the vision and was enlightened further. Can you show me in the 4 gospel accounts (before the cross) where the 12 disciples were preaching about the death, burial and resurrection of Christ?

Pentecost was after the cross. The disciples later learned of the full entire gospel message from Jesus, but before the cross, it was a different story, as I explained in post #140. I'm not saying it's another gospel (Galatians 1:6-9) yet there is a distinctive element to the content of the gospel after the cross, which I already explained in my post.
 
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The teaching of the gospel of the Kingdom is the same gospel (But it was not in focus or clear to Christ's disciples). We can see the teachings of Jesus Christ repeated by even Paul. Jesus agreed with the lawyer on the truth that we have to love God and love our neighbor as a part of inheriting eternal life (See: Luke 10:25-28). Jesus said to the rich young ruler, that if you will enter into life, keep the commandments; This was the Moral Law (See: Matthew 19:17-19). Paul agrees with Jesus here. Paul says, "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Romans 8:4). "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." (Romans 8:13). For the New Covenant Law that is called the "Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus"; This law has made us free from the Law of sin and death (Which is the Law of Moses) (Romans 8:2). Keeping this Law brings life, and not keeping this law leads to death (Romans 8:13). Paul even says that the adultery, murders, and idolatry, etc. are the kinds of sins that will cause one not to inherit the Kingdom of God (Galatians 5:19-21). So obedience to God's commands still play a part in our salvation (After we are saved by God's grace).
 
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Why the *Sigh*? Peter told Cornelius of Christ's death and resurrection in Acts 10, after he had the vision and was enlightened further. Can you show me in the 4 gospel accounts (before the cross) where the 12 disciples were preaching about the death, burial and resurrection of Christ?

My apologies. It sounded like you were implying before that it was Paul who first received the gospel of Christ's death and resurrection, when this is not the case. Peter also preached this gospel of Christ's death and resurrection to Cornelius.
Plus, many assume that Paul spoke a gospel that was different than Peter because he spoke to the Gentiles while Peter preached to the Jews. But as we know it was the same gospel according to Acts 10-11.

You said:
Pentecost was after the cross. The disciples later learned of the full entire gospel message from Jesus, but before the cross, it was a different story, as I explained in post #140. I'm not saying it's another gospel (Galatians 1:6-9) yet there is a distinctive element to the content of the gospel after the cross, which I already explained in my post.

So you are saying there were not two gospels and that there was only one?
I agree. Before the cross, the gospel was less in focus and only Jesus preached the full gospel (and not his disciples). So the gospel was preached. It is just that nobody understood it yet until after the redemptive work of the gospel took place. It is not another gospel as another poster here is suggesting.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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So obedience to God's commands still play a part in our salvation (After we are saved by God's grace).
The JOY and HEALTH that RESULTS (or continues) FROM OBEDIENCE is

in the BIBLE so many times, Tanakh, Torah, Prophets, Psalms and New Testament (including the Apocalypse) .....
 
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Guojing

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*Sigh* Please read Acts chapters 2-4. We see the apostles preach both the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ.

For they were witnesses of Christ's resurrection.

Peter preached Jesus crucifixion as a murder indictment. Examples were Acts 2:36, where Peter says, "... Jesus, whom ye crucified ...." Peter also says in Acts 3:14-15, "But ye denied the Holy One ... and killed the Prince of life ...." Then in Acts 5:30 he says, "... Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree." Finally Stephen, who also preached Peter's gospel, told the Jews in Acts 7:52, "Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers ...."

Until the conversion of Saul/Paul, the crucifixion had been pointed out by the 12 apostles to their intended audience, the Jews, as something to be ashamed of and repented of.

Only after the ascended Jesus revealed the mystery of the gospel of grace to Paul (Ephesians 3:3-5), then all of us Gentile Christians, together with Paul, can look back to the crucifixion and cry: "He loved me and gave Himself for me!" Jesus was not murdered, instead he laid down his life for ME.

Indeed, the follow non-exhaustive list of verses written by Paul that testified to the importance of the cross in the divine exchange is as follows

Romans 3:25 (NLT) For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past

1 Corinthians 1:18 New Living Translation (NLT) 18 The message of the cross is foolish to those who are headed for destruction! But we who are being saved know it is the very power of God.

Galatians 6:4 New Living Translation (NLT) As for me, may I never boast about anything except the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:20 (NASB) and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

Colossians 2:14 (NIRV) He wiped out the written Law with its rules. The Law was against us. It opposed us. He took it away and nailed it to the cross.

Peter was not preaching the same gospel of grace as the Apostle Paul did. As an example, I can imagine if Peter did preach the same message about the cross as Paul did, and if he did mentioned Colossians 2:14. his Jewish listeners would very likely stone him on the spot, given how zealous they are for the law. ( Acts 21:20)

But he didn't have to preach that since Galatians 2 clearly stated

7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)

9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

In the Gospel of the Kingdom, which is for the circumcised Jews, there is no need for them to believe that Jesus died for their sins and rose again as a sign that they are now justified in the eyes of God.

All they need to do is to acknowledge that Jesus is the promised Messiah and King sent to them. As the Gospel of John concluded in ch 20, remember he was one of the 3 apostles who agreed to confine their ministry to only the Jews,

29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
 
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Peter preached Jesus crucifixion as a murder indictment. Examples were Acts 2:36, where Peter says, "... Jesus, whom ye crucified ...." Peter also says in Acts 3:14-15, "But ye denied the Holy One ... and killed the Prince of life ...." Then in Acts 5:30 he says, "... Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree." Finally Stephen, who also preached Peter's gospel, told the Jews in Acts 7:52, "Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers ...."

Until the conversion of Saul/Paul, the crucifixion had been pointed out by the 12 apostles to their intended audience, the Jews, as something to be ashamed of and repented of.

Only after the ascended Jesus revealed the mystery of the gospel of grace to Paul (Ephesians 3:3-5), then all of us Gentile Christians, together with Paul, can look back to the crucifixion and cry: "He loved me and gave Himself for me!" Jesus was not murdered, instead he laid down his life for ME.

Indeed, the follow non-exhaustive list of verses written by Paul that testified to the importance of the cross in the divine exchange is as follows

Romans 3:25 (NLT) For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past

1 Corinthians 1:18 New Living Translation (NLT) 18 The message of the cross is foolish to those who are headed for destruction! But we who are being saved know it is the very power of God.

Galatians 6:4 New Living Translation (NLT) As for me, may I never boast about anything except the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:20 (NASB) and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

Colossians 2:14 (NIRV) He wiped out the written Law with its rules. The Law was against us. It opposed us. He took it away and nailed it to the cross.

Peter was not preaching the same gospel of grace as the Apostle Paul did. As an example, I can imagine if Peter did preach the same message about the cross as Paul did, and if he did mentioned Colossians 2:14. his Jewish listeners would very likely stone him on the spot, given how zealous they are for the law. ( Acts 21:20)

But he didn't have to preach that since Galatians 2 clearly stated

7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)

9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

In the Gospel of the Kingdom, which is for the circumcised Jews, there is no need for them to believe that Jesus died for their sins and rose again as a sign that they are now justified in the eyes of God.

All they need to do is to acknowledge that Jesus is the promised Messiah and King sent to them. As the Gospel of John concluded in ch 20, remember he was one of the 3 apostles who agreed to confine their ministry to only the Jews,

29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

You did not recognize any of the points I made with Scripture, so I am moving on from our discussion.

May God bless you.
 
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Grip Docility

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The Works of the Law

Typically "Salvation by Works" Christians' spin on the verses where Paul speaks about salvation by faith apart from works is that they interpret "works" to only mean certain works - namely ceremonial works under the Law of Moses, but that living up to works such as not sinning, living up to the 10 commandments, all the moral laws are all conditions for salvation.

But notice what laws Paul references when he speaks of the righteousness of the law in contrast to the righteousness which is by faith.

Romans 10:4-6 Christ is the fulfillment{or, completion, or end} of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. For Moses writes about the righteousness of the law,"The one who does them will live by them." (Lev 18:5) But the righteousness which is of faith says this ..."

The righteousness of the law involves doing the very things that "Faith-in-Works" Christians insist a person must do to be saved. For if we go back to the context of Lev 18:5 which Paul references we find such things as not committing sexual immorality, be holy, respect your parents, observe the Sabbath, do not make idols, do not steal, do not lie, do not swear falsely, do not pervert justice, do not slander, do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. To name a few.

Thus Paul is saying that making salvation out to be contingent upon such things as obeying the ten commands, loving your neighbor as yourself, and the like is contrary to the righteousness which is by faith.

Notice also how Paul speaks of the works of the law in contrast to faith as two different things.

Rom 9:31,32 Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law.

Gal 2:16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."

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Guojing

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You did not recognize any of the points I made with Scripture, so I am moving on from our discussion.

May God bless you.

I recognized that Peter mentioned that Jesus died and rose again. But that is not the same as preaching the gospel of the death burial and resurrection stated by Paul in 1 Cor 15.

Peter used it to prove that Jesus is indeed the Messiah and the promised Son of God, not as a proof that they stand forever justified before God, free from their sins.
 
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Kenny'sID

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No, I don't know what you are talking about.

Of course you don't

It is at your own peril you call the gospel untrue and mock it as easy like the pharisees did when scripture says the work is finished. Don't say you weren't warned when you come to him saying "Lord Lord didn't I perform many good works in your name?" and he tells you he never knew you.... Go ahead and follow religion, I will choose to follow Jesus and stay on the narrow way. I will pray for you.

And it is at your peril you twist and put words in someone else mouth...I disagreed with your twisted view of the bible, not the bible itself. Also, Christs work is not finished until the judgment, and even then he will be ruling in heaven so I'd say his work will never be finished.. I really do wish you all would stop saying that. ;)
 
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Grip Docility

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Na, how about answering the question or ignoring it, or actually I guess you did ignore it.

thanks just the same.

I answered you painfully clearly.

I as Peter said, say, Luke 5:8

Do you know how He always responds?

Luke 5:32

And Kenny... you say Na to Jesus only table flipping on the teachers of the Law and Pharisees?

Prove me wrong, please. If you don’t know how the Sanhedrin worked, I’m wondering how it is you claim people twist scripture when you don’t understand it yourself.
 
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Kenny'sID

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You’re saying scripture is being twisted.

Allow me to ask you sincerely... Do you know, in your heart, and without a single doubt that you are heaven bound, eternally secured?

If so, Please tell me what gives you that assurance?

I, in no way am implying an answer to you one way or the other.

You should know our take on that already, it's a work in progress. The more we want heaven, the more we will concern ourselves about doing right, and the more we do as Christ says we must do in order to get to heaven, the more secure we will be. It ain't over till it's over, people fall away all the time, and it all depends where we are when we die or Christ returns.

Knowing I will stand before Christ in the Judgment one day, I would be frightened to death to teach anyone eternal security. That's for those so selfish they don't want to do as God says, so they pretend throughout their life, it's ok to be selfish, at least as far as getting to heaven goes, and if I were you, I'd at least keep it to myself.

Luke 17:2
It would be better for them to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around their neck than to cause one of these little ones to stumble.
 
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Grip Docility

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You should know our take on that already, it's a work in progress. The more we want heaven, the more we will concern ourselves about doing right, and the more we do as Christ says we must do in order to get to heaven, the more secure we will be. It ain't over till it's over, people fall away all the time, and it all depends where we are when we die or Christ returns.

Knowing I will stand before Christ in the Judgment one day, I would be frightened to death to teach anyone eternal security. That's for those so selfish they don't want to do as God says, so they pretend throughout their life, it's ok to be selfish, at least as far as getting to heaven goes, and if I were you, I'd at least keep it to myself.

Luke 17:2
It would be better for them to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around their neck than to cause one of these little ones to stumble.

Kenny... you have now confessed that you are not Saved.

You have now confessed that YOU are DOING everything YOU can to get to Heaven.

Do you disagree with this?

And who is we? As in “our” take?
 
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Kenny'sID

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Do you disagree with this?

What a silly question. You really should know the answer to that as well.

Haven't I already told you your way is wrong? That would include you view on who is saved and who is not. I honestly thought I made that clear to you.
 
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Grip Docility

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What a silly question. You really should know the answer to that as well.

Haven't I already told you your way is wrong? That would include you view on who is saved and who is not. I honestly thought I made that clear to you.

Kenny,

This is a SERIOUS question!

Are you Saved?
 
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Kenny'sID

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And Kenny... you say Na to Jesus only table flipping on the teachers of the Law and Pharisees?

Prove me wrong, please. If you don’t know how the Sanhedrin worked, I’m wondering how it is you claim people twist scripture when you don’t understand it yourself.

What are you talking about? That's not the least bit clear, please restate.
 
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