Mixing Politics and Christianity

Jermayn said:

I've been a Democrat and Republican in the years since I've been allowed to vote, most recently a Republican due to the extreme direction the Democratic party is going. A couple years ago, during the Republican National Convention, something happened that threw me off a bit. On night 2, a Sikh gave the opening prayer as the members of the audience bowed their heads in silence. "Ok" I said to myself, "I guess we can exclude everyone except Christians. We have to show some diversity or Republicans would never be elected". Next, I see Donald Trump on stage with a huge rainbow flag as the audience cheers on. "Alright, what gay people do is none of my business" I say to myself. Now on the issue of abortion, we seem to be cool with it under a few scenarios. Last I check, God didn't say "Thou shalt not murder, unless they're under 8 weeks or a product of rape or incest". I've realized that I've sort of integrated politics into my religious believes and it is causing me to compromise on issues that are clearly spoken against in the Bible. I'd like to get everyone's thoughts on this issue. Has it happened to you or someone you know? Have you recognized this pattern of behavior among fellow Christians? Do you think we should throw our support behind a particular party as Christians?

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I'm an independent. That solves any problem of dual allegiances.

Jermayn said:

I've been a Democrat and Republican in the years since I've been allowed to vote, most recently a Republican due to the extreme direction the Democratic party is going. A couple years ago, during the Republican National Convention, something happened that threw me off a bit. On night 2, a Sikh gave the opening prayer as the members of the audience bowed their heads in silence. "Ok" I said to myself, "I guess we can exclude everyone except Christians. We have to show some diversity or Republicans would never be elected". Next, I see Donald Trump on stage with a huge rainbow flag as the audience cheers on. "Alright, what gay people do is none of my business" I say to myself. Now on the issue of abortion, we seem to be cool with it under a few scenarios. Last I check, God didn't say "Thou shalt not murder, unless they're under 8 weeks or a product of rape or incest". I've realized that I've sort of integrated politics into my religious believes and it is causing me to compromise on issues that are clearly spoken against in the Bible. I'd like to get everyone's thoughts on this issue. Has it happened to you or someone you know? Have you recognized this pattern of behavior among fellow Christians? Do you think we should throw our support behind a particular party as Christians?

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Here are a few of my beliefs on the subject that might help:
1. We're all hypocrites about something, and we're all incorrect about something. I meant that we'll all have beliefs that, even if we try to align them with what God wants, will inevitably contradict His will. It's part of our nature as sinners. I think it's good to recognize that hypocrisy. I'm similar to you with abortion--I wish it was culturally immoral instead of just illegal based on how many Republicans there are to enact the legislation. If we really followed God's will on abortion, adoption centers, foster care, etc. would be part of the Republican platform as much as preventing abortion is. I think the reason why many Democrats/liberals resent the conservative stance on this issue is that they think we're hypocrites for (supposedly) not advocating more adoption centers (despite the fact that many Christians adopt, but since there's nothing about that in the RNC platform it's considered hypocritical). Ultimately, God will judge us for what we do and don't do, and plenty of people use that as an excuse to do whatever they want. That's not how it should be--instead it means we should be very careful what we do in this life and base it off of what we know is God's truth, not our own feelings and understanding.
2. Because politics change, the Republican party is not the party of Christianity. If you go back in American history, you can see that political parties emphasized different things, sometimes the complete opposite of what their platforms are today. The changing of political parties is gradual and I think a little bit subconscious, but to me it indicates that most politicians do not actually hold the values they claim to. They just adhere to whatever their constituents think they will like to get elected. As cynical as that sounds, I think the majority of politicians think this way. This doesn't necessarily make them bad people, but it is something to be aware of. Take gay marriage, for example. Did you know that Hilary Clinton and Barack Obama once opposed it? They cited personal religious beliefs. Obviously, that changed in 2012, when Joe Biden endorsed it first. People acted like it was a big deal, but it was really no surprise at all as people could see that the culture was moving in favor of homosexual marriage just as it had of homosexuality in general. It was a gradual process, and now the end of it was in sight. The Supreme Court decision in 2015 was more or less a signal for Republican politicians to move on to the next issue, which was the civil liberties of people who oppose gay marriage. Meanwhile, the politicians would claim they "didn't have a problem with it" even if the year before they were saying it was immoral and contrary to God's will.

The point, of course, is that we can never trust politicians to adhere to Christian values, certainly not in whole and not really in part, either. That being said, if you'd rather vote Republican than Democrat, that's fine. Because the US has only two major parties, many people who do not have all of the values of either one are forced to compromise a bit and vote for the one that is less repulsive to them. But as Christians we must have unchanging convictions and not be subjected to the whims of culture.

As my priest said, "Our 'party' is Christ."

Avoid affiliating oneself too closely with any particular party, whether it's one of the two major parties on one of the smaller third-parties. As far as I can see, no party or political ideology fully aligns itself with the teachings of the Christian faith, and I've found that whenever most politicians bring up Christianity, it is only to use it for his or her own end.

I hear people say things like, "If you don't vote for [insert political party], you're not a Christian," or "It's our Christian duty to vote for [insert political candidate, party, etc.]," quite a bit, which is disappointing. It puts flawed human beings and political ideologies on a pedestal, and I'd argue that it even makes them into idols.

All of us, even those with partisan leanings, should look at the candidates and/or parties we support with a critical eye, and we shouldn't be afraid to commend candidates and/or parties we don't usually support when they get something right.

-Sasha- said:

As my priest said, "Our 'party' is Christ."

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Well said!

Jermayn said:

This is exactly where I hoped the conversation would go. I think many Christains (myself included) get so caught up in politics that we look for ways to justify our party preference and try to force it to be Christian instead of saying "No, the Bible teaches different, you're wrong". Also, I'm not trying to sway anyone toward or away from one party or the other, I just wanted to point out how we need to start putting politicians words to the test against the word of God and not be afraid to speak up when they contradict it.

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We also must be aware that we can't expect a secular government to adhere to Christian belief. The best one can do is advocate for one's beliefs as if they were only about secular matters and try to convince others on the secular merits and not on the religious ones. When we argue for our beliefs, as we should, we cannot expect to convince secularists by using religious arguments. Lawmakers in the US are precluded from making laws based solely upon religious beliefs by the Constitution's First Amendment. As most all of what we believe to be right and wrong are things that will have solid arguments on our side without invoking religion, that should be no problem.

I am always a Christian, but I live in a fallen world and can not expect perfection. So I choose that which does the least harm and at this point in time the Democrats seem to have turned their backs on God and Christianity.

Jermayn said:

This is a good point. The American constitution requires a separation between the church and the state, so where does this put the Christian community in relation to our government? Are we to be like the prophets of the old testament, where God would send them to say "Hey, your screwing up and bad things are going to happen if you don't stop" (not a quote from the Bible, just a paraphrase)? Jesus seemed to direct a lot of his critique toward the religious leaders of his time and not so much toward the Roman or Jewish government but the citizens didn't really have a say in who became the Emperor/King/Officials. What would he have to say about the churches role in government (in countries that elect their officials) since we do have a say?

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I can't speak for Jesus other than by quoting the Bible. IMO what a Christian ought to do is carry out whatever civic responsibilities we are given to the best of our ability. As you point out, we have more say as individual citizens of a modern republic than citizens of the Roman Empire had. Therefore we have a greater duty in terms of how the government functions than the Christians of the early church. . However, this duty falls on us as individual citizens who are Christians not as a Christian voting bloc.

Jermayn said:

Do you think we should throw our support behind a particular party as Christians?

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I appreciate the way you've struggled with political issues as a Christian, I think we all do at some level. The last question caught my attention, no, throwing in with either party is simply not smart politics. I've always been a Democrat and usually vote that way but most of that is over economic issues like deregulation, unfunded tax cuts, and a pro status quo history of the GOP. I'll vote for a Republican in a heart beat if I feel he or she is the better candidate. I think the first amendment protects religion from interference from the government and the government from undue interference from religious authorities. That is one of the great gifts from our first right as Americans, I think it continues to serve us well both secularly and spiritually. Fixing the roads, funding the government, negotiating trade treaties, regulating commerce, protecting civil rights and liberties are all civic matters that are decided as a matter of conscience and civic duty.

Don't mix the blood of your religious convictions with the wine of secular governance. Yes your religious convictions might have political implications but you should realize, ultimately they are separate issues. The Most High is still sovereign and rules in the affairs of men, always has and always will. But do I cross compare my belief in justification by faith with my support of Dodd-Frank regulations? The two have nothing to do with one another.

Grace and peace,
Mark

mark kennedy said:

I appreciate the way you've struggled with political issues as a Christian, I think we all do at some level. The last question caught my attention, no, throwing in with either party is simply not smart politics. I've always been a Democrat and usually vote that way but most of that is over economic issues like deregulation, unfunded tax cuts, and a pro status quo history of the GOP. I'll vote for a Republican in a heart beat if I feel he or she is the better candidate. I think the first amendment protects religion from interference from the government and the government from undue interference from religious authorities. That is one of the great gifts from our first right as Americans, I think it continues to serve us well both secularly and spiritually. Fixing the roads, funding the government, negotiating trade treaties, regulating commerce, protecting civil rights and liberties are all civic matters that are decided as a matter of conscience and civic duty.

Don't mix the blood of your religious convictions with the wine of secular governance. Yes your religious convictions might have political implications but you should realize, ultimately they are separate issues. The Most High is still sovereign and rules in the affairs of men, always has and always will. But do I cross compare my belief in justification by faith with my support of Dodd-Frank regulations? The two have nothing to do with one another.

Grace and peace,
Mark

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Though I agree with much of what you say here. I have to point out that everything is intertwined. I cannot say that my Christianity is divorced from any decision I make even those that seem on the surface to carry no moral or ethical religious baggage. My dissent from many government actions is based upon my understanding of Christianity coupled with my secular reasoning. For me, optimal freedom is what God has afforded us and I find government encroachment upon that optimal freedom to be unsavory if sometimes necessary. God has told us what he desires of us yet does not use the means at his disposal to enforce compliance but allows us the freedom to act in contradiction to those desires. Government acts in a completely different way. I realize that without government's coercive power society would become chaotic so I understand the necessity of government interference in our lives but I believe it is the citizen's duty to oppose enforced compliance unless it is absolutely necessary to avoid total chaos. My religious perspective and my secular perspective align in most things because although on a purely moral. ethical and religious level I oppose many things people are allowed to do and think there are many things people ought to be doing, I am not for using the means at government's disposal to force compliance with my preferences on those matters. It is the comingling of my religious and secular convictions about the use of power and the example God has given us of his restraint in that area that guides me on that.

grasping the after wind said:

Though I agree with much of what you say here. I have to point out that everything is intertwined. I cannot say that my Christianity is divorced from any decision I make even those that seem on the surface to carry no moral or ethical religious baggage. My dissent from many government actions is based upon my understanding of Christianity coupled with my secular reasoning. For me, optimal freedom is what God has afforded us and I find government encroachment upon that optimal freedom to be unsavory if sometimes necessary. God has told us what he desires of us yet does not use the means at his disposal to enforce compliance but allows us the freedom to act in contradiction to those desires. Government acts in a completely different way. I realize that without government's coercive power society would become chaotic so I understand the necessity of government interference in our lives but I believe it is the citizen's duty to oppose enforced compliance unless it is absolutely necessary to avoid total chaos. My religious perspective and my secular perspective align in most things because although on a purely moral. ethical and religious level I oppose many things people are allowed to do and think there are many things people ought to be doing, I am not for using the means at government's disposal to force compliance with my preferences on those matters. It is the comingling of my religious and secular convictions about the use of power and the example God has given us of his restraint in that area that guides me on that.

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I understand what your saying and I struggle with these things myself all the time. God didn't like how the poor were treated in the Old Testament and aside from idolatry, one of the biggest complaints against ancient Israel from the prophets. So I take economic issues seriously and when running for national office I pay careful attention to their domestic agenda. I would like to see an end to abortion on demand but do I want to sacrifice the right of the mother to chose? That's not a simple choice and as a legal issue the Supreme Court is pretty clear. Remember the Catholic church grew a secular arm starting about 1,000 AD and for a long time was pretty benign, until they weren't.

As the political drama unfolds I try to keep secular and religious issues separate, they overlap sometimes but largely they are discernibly different.

mark kennedy said:

I understand what your saying and I struggle with these things myself all the time. God didn't like how the poor were treated in the Old Testament and aside from idolatry, one of the biggest complaints against ancient Israel from the prophets. So I take economic issues seriously and when running for national office I pay careful attention to their domestic agenda. I would like to see an end to abortion on demand but do I want to sacrifice the right of the mother to chose? That's not a simple choice and as a legal issue the Supreme Court is pretty clear. Remember the Catholic church grew a secular arm starting about 1,000 AD and for a long time was pretty benign, until they weren't.

As the political drama unfolds I try to keep secular and religious issues separate, they overlap sometimes but largely they are discernibly different.

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Actually, I can't think of anything that doesn't overlap to some degree.

Jermayn said:

I've been a Democrat and Republican in the years since I've been allowed to vote, most recently a Republican due to the extreme direction the Democratic party is going. A couple years ago, during the Republican National Convention, something happened that threw me off a bit. On night 2, a Sikh gave the opening prayer as the members of the audience bowed their heads in silence. "Ok" I said to myself, "I guess we can exclude everyone except Christians. We have to show some diversity or Republicans would never be elected". Next, I see Donald Trump on stage with a huge rainbow flag as the audience cheers on. "Alright, what gay people do is none of my business" I say to myself. Now on the issue of abortion, we seem to be cool with it under a few scenarios. Last I check, God didn't say "Thou shalt not murder, unless they're under 8 weeks or a product of rape or incest". I've realized that I've sort of integrated politics into my religious believes and it is causing me to compromise on issues that are clearly spoken against in the Bible. I'd like to get everyone's thoughts on this issue. Has it happened to you or someone you know? Have you recognized this pattern of behavior among fellow Christians? Do you think we should throw our support behind a particular party as Christians?

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As far as I can see Trump supports the Christian view regarding abortion.

And in general terms Republicans are far more against abortion than Democrats.

(If) Christian we better believe whose side God is on regarding abortion.

That's a big (if) up there.

M-Bob