The Tree and it's Fruits, the Toronto Blessing?

SeventhFisherofMen · May 21, 2019

GoldenKingGaze said:
Wesley's revival had some unusual manifestations, holy rolling... and the fruits are clear in hindsight. What are they?
And the Toronto Blessing is now decades old. What are the fruits to observe and determine the nature of this tree? According to Jesus, you can tell a tree by it's fruit.
Out of this movement I have been inspired and set free from a whole area of sin. One lady we prayed for, said she had no more pain. Some find holy rolling... offensive.

What say you?

Well I say it seems to not be supported by scripture. I don’t know anywhere where Jesus laid His hand on people and they went unconscious etc, only in the case of the demon possessed boy did he fall to the ground but that was in deliverance from a demon and he was better immediately, so unless everyone who is knocked out is being delivered from demons and even that I would be skeptical of what spiritually is causing all of that if it’s from God or just an imitation from a false power. Anyways that’s what say I.

Presbyterian Continuist · May 21, 2019

GoldenKingGaze said:
Really what matters is that they receive the Holy Spirit and bear the fruit of the Spirit, in surrender to God and then one fruit is self control.

The Holy Spirit will never add to or contradict the Bible. If it is not clearly set out in the Bible then it is not the Holy Spirit. It is a lying spirit that says, "We shouldn't put these experiences in a box...like the Bible."

Presbyterian Continuist · May 21, 2019

GoldenKingGaze said:
God is always doing new things, can we really anticipate what sorts of things God will do?

Seeing Carol Arnott shaking her head violently during a message seemed to me to be an expression of how much she did not want to be strict about sin, and warn people. A word from her came in 2106 about a person and a type of person, entering the holy place out of order, in compromise, by having an affair with the secretary elsewhere. People would criticize the revivalists for not preaching repentance from sin, and when they do, they find another reason to. She warned a time would come when they would either run to the altar and repent or run out of the building. Alternatively turn into a pillar of salt.

That is not Hindu or kriyas... the look is a noticeably different and fruit is Biblical.

This type of experience is not in the New Testament and is therefore part of the occult invasion of the Charismatic church. The word she received was not from the Holy Spirit but from a lying spirit giving her that false word.

Presbyterian Continuist · May 21, 2019

GoldenKingGaze said:
The verse about doing things decently and in order refers to the use of vocal gifts. There are various types of church formats, the love feast, the eucharistic service, the great outpouring of Pentecost, the anointing service, deliverance meetings, healing rallies... There were Paul's foundational meetings and Apollos' outpouring meetings, all perfectly right.

Self control only comes founded on His control in surrender to the impartation received of the Holy Spirit within. "And the government shall be upon His shoulders."

That is a twisting of the Scripture to make it say something different than what Paul actually said. He said, "Let ALL things be done decently and in order". The fruit is not limited to what you say it is. That is also adding something to the Scripture that is not there. The spiritual fruit of self-control applies to everything we do.

The Scripture cannot be twisted to fit into non-Biblical manifestations. We always need to be careful of deception and to be receiving another Holy Spirit who is a counterfeit of the real Person.

Presbyterian Continuist · May 21, 2019

GoldenKingGaze said:
Positive thinking was a 1980's psychology trend. It helped me repent for the first time when I was young.

It was, and still is, a false doctrine taught by a person who was into pagan Hindu mind control. It is clearly occult, and not of the Holy Spirit.

GoldenKingGaze · May 22, 2019

SeventhFisherofMen said:
Well I say it seems to not be supported by scripture. I don’t know anywhere where Jesus laid His hand on people and they went unconscious etc, only in the case of the demon possessed boy did he fall to the ground but that was in deliverance from a demon and he was better immediately, so unless everyone who is knocked out is being delivered from demons and even that I would be skeptical of what spiritually is causing all of that if it’s from God or just an imitation from a false power. Anyways that’s what say I.

Yes, the boy suffering fits fell down or was thrown and delivered straight away. In revival meetings things like that happen, whereas in Jesus absence or with a disciple they could not do this or it took long.

If you really invited the Holy Spirit to your church, and you knew he would come and do as he wants, could you tell what he was going to do? Even using the whole Bible?

GoldenKingGaze · May 22, 2019

Oscarr said:
The Holy Spirit will never add to or contradict the Bible. If it is not clearly set out in the Bible then it is not the Holy Spirit. It is a lying spirit that says, "We shouldn't put these experiences in a box...like the Bible."

I am sure the lying spirit was behind the doubts in Occult Invasion.

The Bible is God's work through human beings, is living, but people make it a box when they humanly invent the idea, that despite God doing all new things from Genesis to Revelation in the Bible, that we can say he will not do any more. And when we call upon him and new things happen, that are not already in the Bible, that they are from the occult. Recall please that Peter and the disciples suspected that one of them would not die before Jesus returned.

Wisdom is not sensible. Sense refers to the senses and flesh.

God will not fit in a man made box of Biblical interpretation. Like a cat cannot anticipate what his master will do and say. God is bigger than us and bigger than a box, referring back to the Ark of the Covenant. Does God stay in a box or even a temple? God's presence fills the universe, and there is more than one.

It is a lying spirit that says "if it is not what is already written in the Bible, where it describes God's presence, it is one of us." That is blasphemy.

I records of revivals, there are gaps in which manifestations were not recorded and only the words.

And Bible mentions oil of joy for mourning. I see you do not mention the testimony I heard of someone who like this overcame depression.

And Jesus did many works before he ascended, and so many that the disciples could not write them down. This also is in the Bible.

The Bible as living and in motion, shows God responding, inventing new things. God did not say, the Bible is complete and I made it so it will show the pattern of what I will do. I will never again do anything new.

Even Jesus' blood was new. Pentecost, the Spiritual gifts, the use of the word Agape, and filling Romans with is Romans 5:5, all new. I think even if people saw the pillar of fire by night, many would doubt this is God.

GoldenKingGaze · May 22, 2019

Oscarr said:
This type of experience is not in the New Testament and is therefore part of the occult invasion of the Charismatic church. The word she received was not from the Holy Spirit but from a lying spirit giving her that false word.

Why don't you explain your point of view instead of just stating it. How can Satan fight Satan and stand? Jesus said he could not do this.

Luk 11:14 Now he was casting out a demon that was mute. When the demon had gone out, the mute man spoke, and the people marveled.
Luk 11:15 But some of them said, “He casts out demons by Beelzebul, the prince of demons,”
Luk 11:16 while others, to test him, kept seeking from him a sign from heaven.
Luk 11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and a divided household falls.
Luk 11:18 And if Satan also is divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand? For you say that I cast out demons by Beelzebul.
Luk 11:19 And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges.
Luk 11:20 But if it is by the finger of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
Luk 11:21 When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are safe;
Luk 11:22 but when one stronger than he attacks him and overcomes him, he takes away his armor in which he trusted and divides his spoil.
Luk 11:23 Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.

We did not see speeches given in the NT and only heard the Apostles seemed drunk... Who can say they know what it looked like?

SeventhFisherofMen · May 22, 2019

GoldenKingGaze said:
Yes, the boy suffering fits fell down or was thrown and delivered straight away. In revival meetings things like that happen, whereas in Jesus absence or with a disciple they could not do this or it took long.

If you really invited the Holy Spirit to your church, and you knew he would come and do as he wants, could you tell what he was going to do? Even using the whole Bible?

Personally I question the lives of those who perform such signs, like between you and me only God knows if they are sincerely calling upon Jesus for their power or something else.

I personally wouldn’t trust a stranger to lay their hands on me if people are falling down and convulsing etc.

GoldenKingGaze · May 22, 2019

Oscarr said:
That is a twisting of the Scripture to make it say something different than what Paul actually said. He said, "Let ALL things be done decently and in order". The fruit is not limited to what you say it is. That is also adding something to the Scripture that is not there. The spiritual fruit of self-control applies to everything we do.

The Scripture cannot be twisted to fit into non-Biblical manifestations. We always need to be careful of deception and to be receiving another Holy Spirit who is a counterfeit of the real Person.

In ancient Israel, there were several types of worship, they may not have all looked, decent and in order. And that reminds me of King David being cursed by his wife when seen dancing. But it was his wife who was rebuked by God through David.

I will quote the whole chapter here from ESV. Paul was speaking to the Corinthians, in a unique setting. By all things, he meant in Corinth and in regards to people taking turns to speak, and in regards to women speaking, and this too may have been about a unique chatter found amongst Corinthians then. Do you really mean to say that absolutely all things must be done decently and in order? I mentioned deliverance ministry before, and love feasts, Apollos' s meetings...

Prophecy and Tongues
1Co 14:1 Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy.
1Co 14:2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
1Co 14:3 On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation.
1Co 14:4 The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church.
1Co 14:5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up.
1Co 14:6 Now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues, how will I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching?
1Co 14:7 If even lifeless instruments, such as the flute or the harp, do not give distinct notes, how will anyone know what is played?
1Co 14:8 And if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready for battle?
1Co 14:9 So with yourselves, if with your tongue you utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know what is said? For you will be speaking into the air.
1Co 14:10 There are doubtless many different languages in the world, and none is without meaning,
1Co 14:11 but if I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me.
1Co 14:12 So with yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church.
1Co 14:13 Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret.
1Co 14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful.
1Co 14:15 What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also.
1Co 14:16 Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider say “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying?
1Co 14:17 For you may be giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not being built up.
1Co 14:18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you.
1Co 14:19 Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.
1Co 14:20 Brothers, do not be children in your thinking. Be infants in evil, but in your thinking be mature.
1Co 14:21 In the Law it is written, “By people of strange tongues and by the lips of foreigners will I speak to this people, and even then they will not listen to me, says the Lord.”
1Co 14:22 Thus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for believers.
1Co 14:23 If, therefore, the whole church comes together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of your minds?
1Co 14:24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all,
1Co 14:25 the secrets of his heart are disclosed, and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and declare that God is really among you.
Orderly Worship
1Co 14:26 What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up.
1Co 14:27 If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret.
1Co 14:28 But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God.
1Co 14:29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said.
1Co 14:30 If a revelation is made to another sitting there, let the first be silent.
1Co 14:31 For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged,
1Co 14:32 and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets.
1Co 14:33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,
1Co 14:34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.
1Co 14:35 If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.
1Co 14:36 Or was it from you that the word of God came? Or are you the only ones it has reached?
1Co 14:37 If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord.
1Co 14:38 If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.
1Co 14:39 So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.
1Co 14:40 But all things should be done decently and in order.

It is about gifts operating and is in context in regards to the rest of the content of the chapter. Or even the book. People have many ideas about what is decent. And also about order. People laughing but not laughing at someone is decent and they are not stomping on each other, they are dressed and in seats somewhat, there is enough order, the speaker can speak unless the Spirit is filling many so he loses control, and the Spirit is acting.

GoldenKingGaze · May 22, 2019

Oscarr said:
That is a twisting of the Scripture to make it say something different than what Paul actually said. He said, "Let ALL things be done decently and in order". The fruit is not limited to what you say it is. That is also adding something to the Scripture that is not there. The spiritual fruit of self-control applies to everything we do.

The Scripture cannot be twisted to fit into non-Biblical manifestations. We always need to be careful of deception and to be receiving another Holy Spirit who is a counterfeit of the real Person.

What limitation did I place on fruit?

Also self control is built on God's control and the fruit does not come until we receive the Spirit and surrender control... to Him.

GoldenKingGaze · May 22, 2019

Oscarr said:
It was, and still is, a false doctrine taught by a person who was into pagan Hindu mind control. It is clearly occult, and not of the Holy Spirit.

Where does the pagan mind control start in Norman's life. Where is it documented?

Not all things Hindu are unacceptable.

SeventhFisherofMen · May 22, 2019

GoldenKingGaze said:
Where does the pagan mind control start in Norman's life. Where is it documented?

Not all things Hindu are unacceptable.

I would be careful not to accept doctrines taught by other religions. Jesus says He is the way, the Truth and The Life, no one comes to the father except through Him. If something is taught by another religion and is not from Christ it is not Truth.

GoldenKingGaze · May 22, 2019

SeventhFisherofMen said:
I would be careful not to accept doctrines taught by other religions. Jesus says He is the way, the Truth and The Life, no one comes to the father except through Him. If something is taught by another religion and is not from Christ it is not Truth.

Yes, there is not enough truth in the vedas for worship with them. Where there is an idol worshiped, there is a demon. But Indian food, or business philosophy... is alright. You can discern the useful from the unjust.

GoldenKingGaze · May 22, 2019

Correct Biblical interpretation firstly involves what the verse meant to the person who wrote it, at the time, and what it meant to the recipients. It cannot mean now, what it did not mean then.

Presbyterian Continuist · May 22, 2019

GoldenKingGaze said:
I am sure the lying spirit was behind the doubts in Occult Invasion.

The Bible is God's work through human beings, is living, but people make it a box when they humanly invent the idea, that despite God doing all new things from Genesis to Revelation in the Bible, that we can say he will not do any more. And when we call upon him and new things happen, that are not already in the Bible, that they are from the occult. Recall please that Peter and the disciples suspected that one of them would not die before Jesus returned.

Wisdom is not sensible. Sense refers to the senses and flesh.

God will not fit in a man made box of Biblical interpretation. Like a cat cannot anticipate what his master will do and say. God is bigger than us and bigger than a box, referring back to the Ark of the Covenant. Does God stay in a box or even a temple? God's presence fills the universe, and there is more than one.

It is a lying spirit that says "if it is not what is already written in the Bible, where it describes God's presence, it is one of us." That is blasphemy.

I records of revivals, there are gaps in which manifestations were not recorded and only the words.

And Bible mentions oil of joy for mourning. I see you do not mention the testimony I heard of someone who like this overcame depression.

And Jesus did many works before he ascended, and so many that the disciples could not write them down. This also is in the Bible.

The Bible as living and in motion, shows God responding, inventing new things. God did not say, the Bible is complete and I made it so it will show the pattern of what I will do. I will never again do anything new.

Even Jesus' blood was new. Pentecost, the Spiritual gifts, the use of the word Agape, and filling Romans with is Romans 5:5, all new. I think even if people saw the pillar of fire by night, many would doubt this is God.

When I was a young man, discipled by a Pentecostal pastor whose background was in the Methodist Holiness movement, I attended two weekend conventions, during 1970, where he ministered. In both conventions, when he started his ministry, the power and glory of God came down in those meetings, very similar to what I had read of Jonathan Edwards, Charles Finney, and David Brainerd. People fell on their knees and faces and got right with God, some of the most hardened hearts were broken before God, and sinners got saved. There were no jerking, screaming, shaking, falling backwards or any other violent physical manifestations. Everyone knew they were in the intense presence of our Holy God! And when that happens, the spirit of stupidity with its crazy manifestations don't happen! The devil, with his occult practices, is driven right out by the holiness and power of God.

I have attended many Pentecostal and Charismatic meetings since, and where some of the most well-known international ministries have preached and taught, and I have never since seen anything of the power of God that I saw in those two weekend conventions.

You have have all your hallelujah hootenannys with all the crazy, Kundalini manifestatation, and claims of healing which, afterward, are known not to have happened, but it does not come anywhere near the real thing!

Presbyterian Continuist · May 22, 2019

GoldenKingGaze said:
Why don't you explain your point of view instead of just stating it. How can Satan fight Satan and stand? Jesus said he could not do this.

Luk 11:14 Now he was casting out a demon that was mute. When the demon had gone out, the mute man spoke, and the people marveled.
Luk 11:15 But some of them said, “He casts out demons by Beelzebul, the prince of demons,”
Luk 11:16 while others, to test him, kept seeking from him a sign from heaven.
Luk 11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and a divided household falls.
Luk 11:18 And if Satan also is divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand? For you say that I cast out demons by Beelzebul.
Luk 11:19 And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges.
Luk 11:20 But if it is by the finger of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
Luk 11:21 When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are safe;
Luk 11:22 but when one stronger than he attacks him and overcomes him, he takes away his armor in which he trusted and divides his spoil.
Luk 11:23 Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.

We did not see speeches given in the NT and only heard the Apostles seemed drunk... Who can say they know what it looked like?

You can quote all the Scriptures you like, but I have seen the real power and holiness of God fall on a gathering of people, and when that happens you don't see any of those manifestations at all. You see people on their knees and faces getting right with God!

Presbyterian Continuist · May 22, 2019

GoldenKingGaze said:
Yes, the boy suffering fits fell down or was thrown and delivered straight away. In revival meetings things like that happen, whereas in Jesus absence or with a disciple they could not do this or it took long.

If you really invited the Holy Spirit to your church, and you knew he would come and do as he wants, could you tell what he was going to do? Even using the whole Bible?

I have seen only twice where the real Holy Spirit has visited a Christian gathering, and it is nothing like what you see on Youtube videos. When the Holy Spirit falls in His power on a meeting, people get right with God, they get on their knees and faces, weep and cry out to God for grace and mercy, then, when they are right with God they rejoice and praise God for what He has done. That's the real thing, and I don't see anything in our current Charismatic gatherings, that compares to it.

Presbyterian Continuist · May 22, 2019

GoldenKingGaze said:
In ancient Israel, there were several types of worship, they may not have all looked, decent and in order. And that reminds me of King David being cursed by his wife when seen dancing. But it was his wife who was rebuked by God through David.

I will quote the whole chapter here from ESV. Paul was speaking to the Corinthians, in a unique setting. By all things, he meant in Corinth and in regards to people taking turns to speak, and in regards to women speaking, and this too may have been about a unique chatter found amongst Corinthians then. Do you really mean to say that absolutely all things must be done decently and in order? I mentioned deliverance ministry before, and love feasts, Apollos' s meetings...

Prophecy and Tongues
1Co 14:1 Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy.
1Co 14:2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
1Co 14:3 On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation.
1Co 14:4 The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church.
1Co 14:5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up.
1Co 14:6 Now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues, how will I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching?
1Co 14:7 If even lifeless instruments, such as the flute or the harp, do not give distinct notes, how will anyone know what is played?
1Co 14:8 And if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready for battle?
1Co 14:9 So with yourselves, if with your tongue you utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know what is said? For you will be speaking into the air.
1Co 14:10 There are doubtless many different languages in the world, and none is without meaning,
1Co 14:11 but if I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me.
1Co 14:12 So with yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church.
1Co 14:13 Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret.
1Co 14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful.
1Co 14:15 What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also.
1Co 14:16 Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider say “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying?
1Co 14:17 For you may be giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not being built up.
1Co 14:18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you.
1Co 14:19 Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.
1Co 14:20 Brothers, do not be children in your thinking. Be infants in evil, but in your thinking be mature.
1Co 14:21 In the Law it is written, “By people of strange tongues and by the lips of foreigners will I speak to this people, and even then they will not listen to me, says the Lord.”
1Co 14:22 Thus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for believers.
1Co 14:23 If, therefore, the whole church comes together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of your minds?
1Co 14:24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all,
1Co 14:25 the secrets of his heart are disclosed, and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and declare that God is really among you.
Orderly Worship
1Co 14:26 What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up.
1Co 14:27 If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret.
1Co 14:28 But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God.
1Co 14:29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said.
1Co 14:30 If a revelation is made to another sitting there, let the first be silent.
1Co 14:31 For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged,
1Co 14:32 and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets.
1Co 14:33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,
1Co 14:34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.
1Co 14:35 If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.
1Co 14:36 Or was it from you that the word of God came? Or are you the only ones it has reached?
1Co 14:37 If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord.
1Co 14:38 If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.
1Co 14:39 So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.
1Co 14:40 But all things should be done decently and in order.

It is about gifts operating and is in context in regards to the rest of the content of the chapter. Or even the book. People have many ideas about what is decent. And also about order. People laughing but not laughing at someone is decent and they are not stomping on each other, they are dressed and in seats somewhat, there is enough order, the speaker can speak unless the Spirit is filling many so he loses control, and the Spirit is acting.

I can read 1 Corinthians 14 too. In one of my books on the baptism with the Spirit, I have done a complete exegesis on it, so quoting that chapter to me is preaching to the choir.

I have told you in my other posts what the visitation of the Holy Spirit is really like, and it is nothing like what we see these days in Charismatic gatherings, even with the big name "superduper" guys.

Presbyterian Continuist · May 22, 2019

GoldenKingGaze said:
Where does the pagan mind control start in Norman's life. Where is it documented?

Not all things Hindu are unacceptable.

You can read about him here:
Norman Vincent Peale - Wikipedia

The Tree and it's Fruits, the Toronto Blessing?

You cannot fool Jesus

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Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.

Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.

Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.

You cannot fool Jesus

Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.

Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.

Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.

You cannot fool Jesus

Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.

Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.

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