Is your religion making Americans poor.

crossnote said:

P
There is no greater act of love and mercy than to warn others that the path they are on is a path of ETERNAL DESTRUCTION. Have you cared enough for your neighbor to warn them and tell them of the Great Rescue?

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Jesus says there is a greater act than that.

Danielwright2311 said:

When Romans 13:1-5 was written , yes, it was true, every government was from God, at least they thought so.

But now, its not so, It was not written that all in time , and ours even that governments would be from God. With that said, Hitler, was not from god, Stalin was not from God, Many others also, There are so many great examples of this fact I cant list them all.

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Hitler was not worse in his time than the emperors that Paul knew of in their times. Moreover, Paul was inspired by the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit already knew there would be Hitler.

We are not ready to start working hard and amassing wealth and them thinking of how to best distribute it to the poor.......IT is much easier to rest and look at others who have wealth and talk about how they got it and what they should and should not be doing with it......

GingerBeer said:

The USA is driven by corporate profit and governed by politicians who are in the pockets of corporate lobbyists and churches are busy making people believe that this is all good and godly and right and as things ought to be. When things go wrong how many pulpits are filled by men and women preaching

(Romans 13:1-5) [1] Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. [2] Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgement. [3] For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, [4] for he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer. [5] Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God’s wrath but also for the sake of conscience.​

But the scriptures are not written to make people docile. Injustice is not to be accepted. Wealth and power are not to be taken by the strong and denied to the less strong, the old, widows, orphans, the weak, and the poor. The prophets railed against Israel's kings, nobles, and religious leaders when the poor were left homeless in poverty. How much more should churches be doing the same - railing against injustice and poverty and fighting to have it redressed. How much more should christian voters be voting to prevent wealth from being accumulated in the hands of a very small number of families while millions are in abject poverty? So is your religion making Americans poor?

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The way I see it, we provide all the necessary pathways toward at least for comfortable living. It does require that people apply themselves, and that is a failure of secularism which is creating the dependent, victimhood mentalities (and it's becoming generational), not religion. Christianity teaches that people should have good work ethic and honor their fathers and mothers. We do that by valuing education and self-sustainability. Secularism has removed fathers from the home for the State to fulfill such a role; with disastrous results.

I don't simply paint the poor with the brush of idleness and laziness though. There are genuine and specific circumstances where corporatism puts a family on the street to save a buck. God's justice will apply to those who make those decisions. Such system though is fair better, and keeps society from placing the State in the position and role where God is now.

God provides, the State is not our Lord.

W2L said:

Jesus said seek the kingdom and God will take care of us. Is that socialism?

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Actually, that's not quite what He said.

He did say this, though:

“Truly I tell you,” Jesus replied, “no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields...." -- Mark 10

How does one get a hundred mothers, brothers, and sisters? Cloning, you think?

No, that's by the Body of Christ. And as one gains a hundred mothers by the Body of Christ, one also gains a hundred homes and a hundred fields through the Body of Christ.

But I notice, as I've noted before, that when given straight scripture, some people run away screaming "Socialism!" as you consistently do.

Forgiven Child said:

It is an old story.

If the RCC was to give away ALL of it's wealth, they would receive it again within a Year.
By Tithes.

When you are dealing with so much money, it is in the BILLIONS,
100,000 are reached in Seconds, Millions, in minutes,
Changing 999 BILLION to one Trillion takes some time.

There are so MANY BILLIONS involved, what is the difference between 48 Billion and 55 Billion?

The RCC could give away all of its money, and within a Year would again be in the Billions.

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Ok, thanks for the reply.

GingerBeer said:

It might be.

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Seek the kingdom and a socialist country will supply our needs?

RDKirk said:

Actually, that's not quite what He said.

He did say this, though:

“Truly I tell you,” Jesus replied, “no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields...." -- Mark 10

How does one get a hundred mothers, brothers, and sisters? Cloning, you think?

No, that's by the Body of Christ. And as one gains a hundred mothers by the Body of Christ, one also gains a hundred homes and a hundred fields through the Body of Christ.

But I notice, as I've noted before, that when given straight scripture, some people run away screaming "Socialism!" as you consistently do.

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No, thats exactly what he said.

Matthew 6:33 But [a]seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be [c]added to you.

RaymondG said:

We are not ready to start working hard and amassing wealth and them thinking of how to best distribute it to the poor.......IT is must easier to rest and look at others who have wealth and talk about how they got it and what they should and should not be doing with it......

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Two thousand years and the Body of Christ isn't yet ready to start following its written instructions?

W2L said:

No, thats exactly what he said.

Matthew 6:33 But [a]seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be [c]added to you.

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What you said before is not what you just quoted.

But you must not be able to discern the difference.

RDKirk said:

What you said before is not what you just quoted.

But you must not be able to discern the difference.

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I paraphrased. Can you discern that? Jesus promised that God would supply our food and clothing.

RDKirk said:

Two thousand years and the Body of Christ isn't yet ready to start following its written instructions?

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Most would say amassing wealth is sinful....regardless of what you do with it or how you get it. If you have a lot of money....you are going to hell honey. Therefore we must give away little by little so to not accumulate much...so you are never able to give away much.....only little. You cant love the poor unless you, yourself remain poor. If you work hard and become rich....you hate the poor....."How can you have so much money while there are children dying, they say" "How can you work hard, when there are people who have no jobs?"

So...Dont work hard....rest.....and preach "the gospel" And dont forget to tell those, who decide to work hard anyway, what you think about them and how they should be spending their money.....

Do you disagree that these notions exist?

@RDKirk

How do you explain this scripture?

2 Corinthians 9:7 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
7 Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

W2L said:

I paraphrased. Can you discern that? Jesus promised that God would supply our food and clothing.

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Yeah, that's where the unholy "Santa Claus God" doctrine comes from. Slimy preachers use it to convince people to give them money with the promise that God will directly drop manna into their dinner plates. That's also how other slimy Pharisaic types claim, "If you were righteous, you wouldn't be poor."

W2L said:

@RDKirk

How do you explain this scripture?

2 Corinthians 9:7 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
7 Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

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I would start by not ignoring the previous chapter:

The goal is equality. 2 Corinthians 8:14

First, God is concerned with the destiny of our souls. His viewpoint is Eternal. And for that reason Christ warns us constantly - do not to be obsessed by money.

America's problem today is that we are not competitive in many industries. The USA used to manufacture many goods, but those operations were outsourced. We became a Service-Driven economy. That is why everyone feels pressured by many ridiculous rules. All these service workers are trying to "score cash" off each others backs. It cannot possibly work.

Lay the blame with US companies. OUR largest corporations are paying less in taxes than one American family. What a scam.

Aim your criticism at CEO's. How many of thesr people are involved in clever schemes involving stock buybacks, just so they can boost their own stock price. BUT where is the investment in real R&D to create new ideas, new innovation and work for everyone??

Aim your criticism at money managers and hedge funds who control huge sums of money. For example, the manager who read the news about an earthquake in Turkey and immediately invested in glass companies in Ankara. Why? Because all the windows were broken. But how does this help the USA, or our long term future?? NOT at all. And why does this happen. Because rich investors want big payoffs now ... they dont want a modest payoff over many years.

Dont blame God.
It is not Jesus Christ who is responsible for this greed and mayhem. But certainly the middle class is in deep trouble now. And I dont see any politicians with real answers.

GingerBeer said:

Yet for all that you say God nevertheless gave Israel laws enforced by the state and also by society to return the land to its inheritors, provide gleaning for the poor, to show kindness to strangers from foreign lands, and to remember how Israel itself was once in servile labour under Egyptian tyranny so that Israel would never treat its strangers from foreign lands so poorly. And Jesus taught that the last judgement would be about how one reacted to the hungry, thirsty, poor, naked, imprisoned and so forth (see Matthew 25:31-46) so maybe the idea that you gave is a mistaken separation of godliness from social justice.

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Sure...that's Israel, led by God until 1 Samuel 8 (specifically verse 6). We're not a social theocracy, and much more a secular republic. What many are aiming to do is leverage, with malice, our Christian values to guilt conservatives into succumbing to socialist rhetoric: "Oh, if you don't want to pay more taxes you're being unChristian and a lover of money." But we see right through it. We see that even as far back as Moses, that only 10% was required under OT Law; how much does the IRS take? 25-28% and THEN want us to shell out more to cover that which they fail to do. How much of that 25-28% make it into the pockets and mouths of those who truly need it? How much of it is paid out due to mismanaged fraud and corruption? What's the percentage that lines the pockets of the corporate lobbies, politicians, and unnecessary state positions that have no Constitutional basis for existing?

Some attempt to make themselves into God; or at least equal to God, in their narrative. For they pride themselves in the usurpation of tax dollars for their own greed, winning over the poor by keeping them poor, and ushering in a "socialist utopia" as they attempt to mimic Acts 2 and 4, yet fail because God is not with them. We know this by their fruits; for the Lord has warned us about them.

As for social justice; Social Justice does not love:

1. The Truth
2. Christianity
3. Accountability for one's own actions
4. Self responsibility
5. Private property rights
6. The laws of nations
7. Freedom of speech [of the majority]
8. Right to bear arms[of the majority]

98cwitr said:

Sure...that's Israel, led by God until 1 Samuel 8 (specifically verse 6). We're not a social theocracy, and much more a secular republic. What many are aiming to do is leverage, with malice, our Christian values to guilt conservatives into succumbing to socialist rhetoric: "Oh, if you don't want to pay more taxes you're being unChristian and a lover of money." But we see right through it. We see that even as far back as Moses, that only 10% was required under OT Law; how much does the IRS take? 25-28% and THEN want us to shell out more to cover that which they fail to do. How much of that 25-28% make it into the pockets and mouths of those who truly need it? How much of it is paid out due to mismanaged fraud and corruption? What's the percentage that lines the pockets of the corporate lobbies, politicians, and unnecessary state positions that have no Constitutional basis for existing?

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Any careful bible reader knows that the Jews paid much more than 10% for social purposes. Not only were there two annual 10% tithes, but there was another tri-annual 10% tithe.

There was also the requirement to avoid efficient harvest methods and allow the poor to glean the resultant significant remainder. There was the requirement to lend without interest and then to forgive debts entirely every seven years. There was the requirement to return land that had been bought and paid for back to the original family every 50 years. There was the requirement to release all debt slaves every fifty years. All of those were "taxes" on the wealthy under the Mosaic Law.

Moreover, the extreme and consistent absolute denunciation by God of the Jews' failure to care for widows and the fatherless makes it clear that Jews with resources were expected to make sure those vulnerable populations were cared for over and above the legally required provisions.