Those against abortion, have you adopted?

As someone who was "orphaned" as a child, I was put into a children's home, and later adopted in my teens. When I was waiting for a family, I could not have cared less about what religion they followed, how charitable they were, what contribution they thought they were giving to society and their views on what an "ideal" family should be like.

As a child who had no family of my own, I felt hurt and left out every time my friends were picked up every day at the school gate by their Mums and Dads.

People should not adopt just because they want a child, or to sort out a social problem. They should adopt because they want a son or daughter to raise as one of their own. It's not about what the adoptive parents want, it is about the needs of the child.

Shimokita said:

as a group I think we do have an obligation to help create a society in which every woman who is pregnant, is in a position where she can have the child without financial stress. I feel that things such as paid maternity leave, state sponsored child care facilities, food support, and so forth are completely legit. We have some of this in place already, but more could be done.

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I'd love for our country to have mandatory paid maternity leave that is extended like so many other countries do. I think most of us would vote for this if given a chance. We do have a great food support in place for mothers and medicaid for pregnancy if they qualify, which at least helps.

Davidnic said:

The flaw in that argument, aside from being a classic ad hominem, would be by that logic unless I'm going to marry a woman I cannot stop her husband from beating her. If I was alive during the civil war unless I was willing to hire every ex-slave I would have to say that the right to slavery was just. If I am not able to adopt an abused a child I have no right to say that abuse is wrong and actively seek to stop it.

That falls apart pretty quickly under examination.

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pointing out hypocrisy is not an Ad Hominem.

Danielwright2311 said:

So, if all Christians adopted, would women stop killing there unborn baby's?

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No.

I work in the system, and like many here have said, there is a large waiting list to even get a baby. They are snatched up quickly or stay with relatives. Most of the children needing fostering or adopting are older. Sometimes you can find young children, but a lot of them are in Junior High or teenage years. They were almost always had where the mother planned to keep them but something went wrong - drug addiction, mental illness, homelessness, neglect, spousal abuse - and so ended up in the system. This wouldn't have affected them having an abortion in the first place.

Rubiks said:

pointing out hypocrisy is not an Ad Hominem.

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Except it's not hypocrisy and some philosophy texts actually define this exact question as an ad hominem.

It exactly attacks the person with a logical fallacy to avoid the discussion.

Personal ability to solve a problem has no bearing on the moral standing of the problem. To then make it about the personal ability is to attack the person in order to not deal with the problem... It's an ad hominem plain and simple.

I realize it's a jewel in the pro-choice argument crown but it has about as much logical sense as the rest of those arguments. Which would be almost none.

And it perfectly fits ad hominem whether people want to face it or not.

High Fidelity said:

As with many issues, people voice their support so long as it doesn't land in their backyard. The homeless shelter on their street, for example.

Another example is being against abortion but not adopting children, especially those from unwanted pregnancies.

I only know of one person to do it and he's one of the few people I can honestly say puts their money where their mouth is.

So, those of you against abortion, have you adopted? If not, why not?

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That's like someone standing at your front door with a knife to a puppy's throat. Take him or I'll kill him !
Insane.

Rubiks said:

pointing out hypocrisy is not an Ad Hominem.

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Start doing substitutions. In a country someone is killing 5 year old children. You say that is wrong, the reply is if you haven't gone over an adopted any of them you don't have the right to have an opinion.

Clear ad hominem. You are accusing the person of hypocrisy because they haven't gone to personally stop something, picking only one way to help and making it the only way. And you are doing it to deflect from discussing the morality of the act.

You complain about the homeless problem in an area. Someone says you haven't taken a single homeless person and you're not allowed to have an opinion. Same structure and accusation of hypocrisy. Totally irrelevant to having an opinion on moral issue.

So are you saying someone is a hypocrite if they have an opinion on moral issue but haven't done one of hundreds of options to help fix it?

You are cherry picking one of hundreds of options. One that requires some degree of means. So the ability to have an opinion on this matter crafts on having adopted children. That requires a little bit of means which is often restricted by race in America. So the hypocrisy fallacy actually opens the door to racism. Which is of course inherent in planned parenthood's very founding.

There are two fallacies at play. The ad hominem fallacy in the basic construction and the fallacy of having to do one specific act (Cherry picked to require certain conditions based on other factors, wealth, health) out of thousands or else you're a hypocrite.

Hammster said:

It isn’t that expensive. Check with your local family services department.

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Depends on the area and the program. 35 to $40,000 in my area. But if you could PM me links to other ways and processes since you've gone through it that would be great. We've been discussing adopting an older child.

Sabertooth said:

The OP asked a "straw man" question, suggesting that if we weren't ready or able to adopt, that we couldn't criticize abortion. My article shows that that base is already more than covered.

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And I agree entirely. But asking abortionists why they do abortions when so many people are waiting to adopt is a bit different. Because they can solve a huge chunk of the adoption problem by not killing those who would be adopted.

Stormy said:

I have never taken in a homeless person neither.
But I have not slit his throat.

Your thread is stupid. There are countless people looking to adopt babies. Still the best place for a baby is in its mothers arms. Abortion is wrong, and no amount of insane threads or crazy tweets on the internet can ever change that

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Ah yes, the first reply post and someone has already resorted to name calling. No, the thread is not "stupid."

Oh, and how kind of you to not resort to slitting the throats of homeless people. Do you support the local homeless shelter or food kitchen to help feed and house the homeless?

Yes, there are countless people looking to adopt babies. Some problems with that. Most people adopting want babies of a particular race. White parents tend to want white or Asian babies, not black babies. Babies with special needs--crack babies, those who are disabled or have mental disabilities--go to the back of the line. And older children often wind up in foster care and eventually age out of the system because people want babies, not 11-year-olds. I know a couple who did adopt a mentally retarded baby--they specifically wanted a special needs baby--but they are the exception not the rule. And before anyone says that I know nothing about this, I used to work with county children & youth so I have some background in this.

To those who are opposed to abortion and have adopted, I say more power to you. There just aren't enough of you out there. And those who are saying how horribly expensive it is to adopt haven't really looked into it. If you want to do a private adoption so you can get a white baby boy, that can be expensive. If you will adopt a black crack baby through a public agency, it can be done at relatively little cost.

High Fidelity said:

So, those of you against abortion, have you adopted? If not, why not?

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No, but I'd like to
My husband, however, doesn't want to adopt someone else's baby. He likes the experience of creating the baby together. I do too, but I also love the idea of taking in an unwanted baby. I'm not sure what his hangup is. I think he's afraid of the kinds of things you get with troubled foster children (we wouldn't with a new baby and with a loving home) and also the expense. The expense doesn't bother me at all. It's worth it for a little baby to grow up happy. I hope he comes around. He wants 4 kids. We only have one so far, and I'm already 31 so if I get to like 37 and we still don't have 4 and he still wants 4, I'm hoping his mind will be more open by then. Pray for him!

I have not personally, but I plan to once I am married. In have don't have homeless people living in my home, I guess that means i don't care about homeless people by this logic (although my family did take some in while I was younger). Pro-life people are one of the top demographics to adopt (and Religious conservatives, while by no means a Monopoly on the pro-life movement, but being probably the majority still, are the most charitable demographic in general). When it comes to adaption, there is no shortage of people waiting to adopt, in fact there are more people waiting to adopt than there are kids to adopt, but bureaucracy and red tape gets in the way.
American Adoptions - How Many Couples Are Waiting to Adopt?

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This is off topic, but it is a wonderful story. One of the saddest adoption cases we had when I was with children and youth involved a widowed Amish woman who was dying of cancer. She had six children and wanted them to stay together. No one in the local Amish community could adopt all six of the children, but each of her Amish neighbors took in one or two of the children so they would grow up in close contact with each other. The adoptions were approved by the Court while she was still able to get around--she wanted to know that everything was taken care of--but it was understood that the children would stay with her as long as she could care for them. The Amish do look out for each other.

But_First_Coffee said:

My husband, however, doesn't want to adopt someone else's baby.

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my husband didn't want to adopt at first, either
learned he was fearful as there are so many unknowns

Did the state of Alabama include any assistance for adoptive families in its legislation?

A little off-topic, but hope you don't mind me sharing.....

Many years ago, when I was in care, I was put in a foster placement for a year and a half. The couple with their own children came to visit me at the home. They brought me gifts and presents. They took me out for day trips and gave me a lot of love, fuss and attention. It was all smiles when they told me they wanted me to join their family. I finally had someone to call Mum and Dad.

A few months after moving in with them, reality started to sink in - both for me and for them. The Foster Dad wanted a boy who could play football - I wasn't interested. The Foster Mum felt I was taking her attention away from her daughters, so I got scape-goated and blamed for everything that went wrong. Although I became very attached to them and really loved them, I soon got so nervous and afraid of them, I got to the point where I stopped telling them important things. I remember the mornings I got scolded by the Foster Mum and Dad because I lay in my vomit all night because I was too frightened to tell them.

One day, I went to the school fete and bought them all a present with my pocket money. I wanted to make it a nice surprise. They spent so much time telling me how "selfish" and "difficult" I was, I wanted to prove to them that I loved them. I arrived back at the house with the presents, walked through the front door and all of them were congregated in the hallway. I handed over my presents and they all burst into tears. The Foster Mum broke down uncontrollably and told me that I was going back to the children's home that evening. I told her that she was now my Mummy and she couldn't send me back. She held me in her arms, weeping over me, saying how sorry she was and that she could not be my Mum anymore. I was picked up by the social worker and that was the last I ever saw of them.

When people talk about wanting to foster or adopt a child, I always share with them this story, so that when a child eventually goes into their care, they will never be treated in the same way that I was.

Fortunately, it was a happy ending for me, because I was finally adopted into a committed, loving family.

High Fidelity said:

As with many issues, people voice their support so long as it doesn't land in their backyard. The homeless shelter on their street, for example.

Another example is being against abortion but not adopting children, especially those from unwanted pregnancies.

I only know of one person to do it and he's one of the few people I can honestly say puts their money where their mouth is.

So, those of you against abortion, have you adopted? If not, why not?

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You need to change your wording a bit....even though I understand your point.

EVERYONE is against abortion..... there is NO ONE who is PRO-Abortion..... There is NO ONE who would say they have no problem ending a pregnancy at anytime for any reason....NO ONE.

But there are many who are for CHoice!......those not willing to force their beliefs on others.....those who believe God-giving free-will should be honored, lest their own be taken away.....those who treat their neighbor as themselves...

You do the pro choice crowd a disservice, by implying that they are Pro abortion.......this is something that is usually reserved for those that oppose them.

That being said.... I do believe that more should be done to help newborns......than is done to force people to have them, sometimes against their will. But there are many ways to help other than adoption.

But I agree that the help given to newborns should be proportional to the effort given to taking options away from women.

Maybe if you reword your posts.....a few can see value in the underlying message.