Majority of Americans say heartbeat abortion bans are not too restrictive

Calminian · May 21, 2019

ChristianForCats said:
"Was" in that phrase means there was no Resurrection.

Wait, you deny Jesus was human?

kiwimac · May 21, 2019

No Username Found said:
The pro-life position is very simple. We don't believe that a woman have the right to decide whether their unborn child dies for the exact same reasons why they do not have the right to decide whether their born child dies. The same penalty would apply to a doctor who terminates the life of a born child will apply to the ones who terminate the life of an unborn child.

And you would be wrong.

kiwimac · May 21, 2019

redleghunter said:
Show me where the passage only speaks of the woman.

Let me start here:

The Torah does not address the issue directly. The principal biblical source for Jewish law on abortion is a passage in Exodus (Exodus 21:22-23) concerning a case in which two men are fighting and injure a pregnant woman, causing her to miscarry. The verse states that if no other harm is done, the person who caused the damage must pay compensatory damages, but if there is further harm, then he should pay with his life. The common rabbinic interpretation is that if the only harm that comes to the woman is the loss of the fetus, it is treated as a case of property damage — not murder.

The later rabbinic sources address the issue more directly, beginning with the Mishnah referenced above. Elsewhere, the Mishnah says that if a pregnant woman is sentenced to death, the execution can go forward provided she has not yet gone into labor, a further indication that Jewish law does not accord the fetus full human rights prior to birth.

Source

Calminian · May 21, 2019

kiwimac said:
And you would be wrong.

He's actually right.

GodLovesCats · May 21, 2019

Calminian said:
Wait, you deny Jesus was human?

I deny Jesus was only human for 33 years. He is still and always will be human!

kiwimac · May 21, 2019

Yekcidmij said:
This is a side note, but I also think it's weird that everyone opts to speak Latin and call the unborn baby a "fetus" rather than using the definition of fetus:

an unborn offspring of a mammal, in particular an unborn human baby more than eight weeks after conception.

Why not say "unborn human baby" instead of "feotus?"

Because foetus is the correct term.

Calminian · May 21, 2019

ChristianForCats said:
I deny Jesus was only human for 33 years. He is still and always will be human!

Me too. He was human, and was raised human and remains human. There's nothing in casually saying Jesus was human in the womb that contradicts this.

Do you believe Jesus was human both as an unborn baby and after his birth?

GodLovesCats · May 21, 2019

kiwimac said:
Because fetus is the correct term.

After the first two months, when it is an embryo.

Yekcidmij · May 21, 2019

Calminian said:
Me too. He was human, and was raised human and remains human. There's nothing in casually saying Jesus was human in the womb that contradicts this.

Do you believe Jesus was human both before and after his birth?

Apparently Jesus was fully God, fully human, and fully feotus...

Calminian · May 21, 2019

kiwimac said:
Because foetus is the correct term.

What does fetus mean, though?

Calminian · May 21, 2019

Yekcidmij said:
Apparently Jesus was fully God, fully human, and fully feotus...

I suspect some here will say Jesus was never a fetus to avoid some serious implications.

Calminian · May 21, 2019

Oh and BTW, wasn't Jesus, at least from Mary's perspective, an unplanned pregnancy?

redleghunter · May 21, 2019

Calminian said:
Ex. 21:22 “If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

They key is the Hebrew word for "gives birth prematurely." The word here simply means to go out, and if the child goes out but there is no injury, there is merely a fine. This does not imply miscarriage which today means the child died. That is serous today, and was even more serious in ANE culture. They would not just blow that off and pay some small fine. Nor would they describe that as merely going out. The implication is that the child was not harmed, and that the family has been inconvenienced.

And if there is harm, it primarily pertains to the baby, as babies are vulnerable in the womb (not that our culture cares). That why the example refers to a pregnant woman and not just any woman who is not pregnant.

I agree. I was taking the same position as the Hebrew word “Shakol” is absent from the text.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · May 21, 2019

kiwimac said:
And you would be wrong.

How is that so? Explain.

redleghunter · May 21, 2019

Yekcidmij said:
This is a side note, but I also think it's weird that everyone opts to speak Latin and call the unborn baby a "fetus" rather than using the definition of fetus:

an unborn offspring of a mammal, in particular an unborn human baby more than eight weeks after conception.

Why not say "unborn human baby" instead of "feotus?"

It’s part of the dehumanizing factor.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · May 21, 2019

Calminian said:
Oh and BTW, wasn't Jesus, at least from Mary's perspective, an unplanned pregnancy?

What a concept. I don't think Mary even consented to becoming pregnant. Although she did seem overjoyed when she discovered she was.

Rescued One · May 21, 2019

redleghunter said:
I still wonder how many people who reply understand the fact human life begins at conception. I’m sure many do but rely on some subjective philosophy which deems “it’s human life but not a human being or ‘person’”

I’ve heard the “it’s just a bunch of cells” assertion many times. To which you have to ask what kind of “cells” are these? Human of course. Then the reply is usually “my finger nail has human cells.” And the sophistry continues from there.

All my babies were people at conception!

redleghunter · May 21, 2019

kiwimac said:
Let me start here:

Source

Thanks for the source. The Mishna was written by which Apostle or church father?

My error...wasn’t that Jewish literature written by the same Scribes and Pharisees who searched the Scriptures and could not find Jesus?

redleghunter · May 21, 2019

Phoebe Ann said:
All my babies were people at conception!

So was Jesus!

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · May 21, 2019

redleghunter said:
It’s part of the dehumanizing factor.

Yep, apparently unborn babies are not human beings worthy of life unless the omnipotent mother declares it so.

Majority of Americans say heartbeat abortion bans are not too restrictive

Senior Veteran

Bishop of the See of Aotearoa ROCCNZ;Theologian

Bishop of the See of Aotearoa ROCCNZ;Theologian

Senior Veteran

Well-Known Member

Bishop of the See of Aotearoa ROCCNZ;Theologian

Senior Veteran

Well-Known Member

Presbyterian, Polymath

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

Thank You Jesus!

Well-Known Member

Thank You Jesus!

Well-Known Member

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

Thank You Jesus!

Thank You Jesus!

Well-Known Member

Similar threads