Unforgivable Sin

NoahSK said:

I have OCD, and there have been times that I have fallen into unbelief unintentionally about God's existence and even about Jesus being the Messiah. I have read apologetic websites and stuff to try to remove the doubt, things like proof of the resurrection and prophecies that Jesus had fulfilled.

Anyway, I'm worried that I have fallen away because I stopped believing. This has been going on for a week. Just this Friday, as I was about to leave school, I was reading some apologetic stuff and whatnot, and I remember reading something from one guy who effectively made a case as for why Jesus was the devil, and as I read it, it was like something inside me began to believe what he was saying. I didn't want to believe it, but it was like all of a sudden I couldn't see Jesus the same anymore. I wondered if He really was evil. This is a pain to write and I don't know if I should be writing this.

Anyway, this resulted in me panicking and trying to get it out of my head, screaming at myself to stop believing this blasphemous idea. I cried profusely when I got home, wondering how I could have believed that. I believed that I had been saved and there were times I felt great joy that I believe came from the Lord. But now I had thrown it all away.

I know people say that if I am worried about committing this sin, it is proof I have not, but I don't understand that. How could I so suddenly believe something that was completely wrong and blasphemous? I don't understand. It's like I'm starting to believe stuff against my will. I wanted to believe that Jesus was the true Messiah and that the Bible was true but something inside of me kept saying that He was the devil, and I couldn't stop believing it. This was more than a blasphemous thought that I knew I didn't believe; it was like I did believe it.

I told my mom about it, in words, and I'm afraid that by speaking those thoughts I've blasphemed Him. A lot of times, when things come in my head like this, I have the urge to say it out loud. I'm just afraid that I may have.

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Maybe this can help you? Short 4 min video explaining your very topic.

The Unpardonable Sin | Search Bible Topics

Hi N...
God knows you have OCD.
He takes this into consideration and you shouldn't worry so much.

Read the following. A pastor once explained that Jesus fulfilled a lot of Old Testament prophecies concerning the Messiah. He said that anyone could fulfill ONE prophecy...and maybe a person could fulfill even TWO prophecies. But Jesus fulfilled about 100 !"!

The pastor said that the odds of this happening would be like filling up the state of Texas with quarters a foot high. Then in there you throw a penny. What would be the chances of finding that penny? Same thing!
It's impossible.

Here are some links:


List of Old Testament prophecies fulfilled by Jesus


Biblical Prophecies Fulfilled by Jesus


Top 40 Most Helpful Messianic Prophecies • Jews for Jesus

NoahSK said:

I have OCD, and there have been times that I have fallen into unbelief unintentionally about God's existence and even about Jesus being the Messiah. I have read apologetic websites and stuff to try to remove the doubt, things like proof of the resurrection and prophecies that Jesus had fulfilled.

Anyway, I'm worried that I have fallen away because I stopped believing. This has been going on for a week. Just this Friday, as I was about to leave school, I was reading some apologetic stuff and whatnot, and I remember reading something from one guy who effectively made a case as for why Jesus was the devil, and as I read it, it was like something inside me began to believe what he was saying. I didn't want to believe it, but it was like all of a sudden I couldn't see Jesus the same anymore. I wondered if He really was evil. This is a pain to write and I don't know if I should be writing this.

Anyway, this resulted in me panicking and trying to get it out of my head, screaming at myself to stop believing this blasphemous idea. I cried profusely when I got home, wondering how I could have believed that. I believed that I had been saved and there were times I felt great joy that I believe came from the Lord. But now I had thrown it all away.

I know people say that if I am worried about committing this sin, it is proof I have not, but I don't understand that. How could I so suddenly believe something that was completely wrong and blasphemous? I don't understand. It's like I'm starting to believe stuff against my will. I wanted to believe that Jesus was the true Messiah and that the Bible was true but something inside of me kept saying that He was the devil, and I couldn't stop believing it. This was more than a blasphemous thought that I knew I didn't believe; it was like I did believe it.

I told my mom about it, in words, and I'm afraid that by speaking those thoughts I've blasphemed Him. A lot of times, when things come in my head like this, I have the urge to say it out loud. I'm just afraid that I may have. What if I had said it out loud?

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I don't think that technically is the unforgivable sin: Matthew 12:32

"And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."

You would have to be out preaching and trying to convince people against the Holy Ghost in blasphemy I think, if I understand that correctly. And you didn't state it.

But also you are OCD which complicates the issue even more. I understand this especially since I have schizophrenia, and am more tolerant of myself thru counseling and understanding of my illness. If you blasphemy than you should be blaming your illness probably and not your true nature

NoahSK said:

What do you mean by state it? I have said out loud what my thoughts were. It's like I started to believe that Jesus was Satan or something. How could I believe that so suddenly? I don't understand. The more I told myself that it was wrong, the more my mind would be like "Jesus really is Satan, trying to deceive us all." or something like that. I cried because of the thought, but it wouldn't come out of my head. Whenever I would try to say in my mind "Jesus is Lord" or "Jesus is the Son of God and the Messiah" the more the other thoughts would push them away and say "You're wrong." I don't want to believe that He is Satan, but I'm afraid that I do! I know it's wrong, Lord, please get these thoughts out of my head! Why does this happen? How can I have saving faith in Jesus if I believe He is evil? Why do I blaspheme like this?

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This is OCD in a nutshell. You're so badly afraid of doing something terrible that you begin fearing that you've done it - and in fact, OCD will not let you get away with not feeling like you've done it. It WILL find a way to convince you that you have, despite your best efforts. Which is why you have to stop using your current tactics (called compulsions, things like research and reassurance seeking which the OCD forces you to do to relieve anxiety) and start using ERP therapy tactics, which includes ignoring the thoughts (which teaches your brain that the thoughts are meaningless provocations from your OCD, and therefore it stops responding to them with surges of anxiety). See my response to your pm.

cp. Deuteronomy 29:19-20

NoahSK said:

What are you trying to say?

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uses the essentially the same words, "God will never forgive X"

in the NT, God never forgives "sins against the Holy Spirit" in the context of attributing to Beelzebub what God in heaven wrought

in the OT, God never forgives idolators who hear & then reject God's Word due to extreme over-confident Pride ["before the fall"]

since there is only one unforgiveable sin, unless things changed from OT to NT, those must be one and the same sin ?

NoahSK said:

Are you saying that this is what I’ve done? I don’t mean to be prideful; honestly, I never wanted this. I didn’t have any intentions of thinking these thoughts or believing these lies. I would try to shake the thought, but it only became worse, and it was like I started to believe it, although I knew deep down that it was wrong. I’ve fought so hard to get rid of these thoughts. All I wanted was to be with God and do His will. These thoughts have plagued me, I didn’t want to do whatever I did. I never had any intentions of rejecting Him or anything.

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I guess I didn't carefully read all the posts in this thread

I just came across Deut 29:19-20, made the connection in my mind, and came to CF to share -- I just searched for "unforgiveable sin" and posted to the seemingly most relevant thread

sorry for any confusions

NoahSK said:

Are you saying that this is what I’ve done? I don’t mean to be prideful; honestly, I never wanted this. I didn’t have any intentions of thinking these thoughts or believing these lies. I would try to shake the thought, but it only became worse, and it was like I started to believe it, although I knew deep down that it was wrong. I’ve fought so hard to get rid of these thoughts. All I wanted was to be with God and do His will. These thoughts have plagued me, I didn’t want to do whatever I did. I never had any intentions of rejecting Him or anything.

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LOL I like what you did there....you keep coming onto the boards for reassurance that you DIDN'T commit these sins, but when someone actually accuses you of them, the "real" you knows that you didn't do it and defends yourself. Isn't it crazy how OCD works?

NoahSK said:

I'm struggling with these thoughts again. It's like my mind wants to keep telling me that Jesus is Satan (ugh, I hate writing that) and even though I keep looking up proof that He wasn't, looking to His miracles and what He has done and everything else, my mind will immediately, against my will, refute anything I try to say, basically saying that anything that He did was, you know. What I'm fighting is exactly what the Pharisees were saying about Jesus, and I know I don't want the thoughts, but they won't get out of my head, and it's like I really do believe them, even though I don't want to, and even though it doesn't make sense. It's like I'm trying to convince myself that the thought is wrong, but my mind won't take that as an answer. I'm honestly sick of this, and wish that I would have died before this happened. I don't understand how I, as a Christian, could actually believe this crap, despite knowing what is right. And no one has really answered how what I'm doing is any different from what the Pharisees did, and what Jesus deemed unforgivable. And "it's just your OCD" doesn't seem like an acceptable answer to me; like wouldn't the Holy Spirit, if it was in me, prevent me from thinking and "believing" those thoughts? It doesn't make sense how this could be happening if I did have the Holy Spirit in me, OCD or not. I've also heard some people say that speaking those words is the unforgivable sin, which would really leave me hopeless, as I have told other people (including my therapist), with words, the thoughts going through my head, so that they would know exactly what I was going through. Whenever the thoughts enter my head, I become nauseous, because they're more than thoughts; it's like I am intellectually convinced that they are true, despite being a Christian my whole life and knowing that Jesus is God, and stuff like that. It makes no sense.

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I know exactly what you're going through and I just want you to know this. God really loves you. God knows the true you and in your last sentence you said that Jesus is God which shows that you don't really believe these thoughts, I know that these thoughts are bad, I deal with bad thoughts , but remember that Jesus loves you and is always with you. God bless you and Jesus is Lord. You can pm me anytime.

NoahSK said:

I'm struggling with these thoughts again. It's like my mind wants to keep telling me that Jesus is Satan (ugh, I hate writing that) and even though I keep looking up proof that He wasn't, looking to His miracles and what He has done and everything else, my mind will immediately, against my will, refute anything I try to say, basically saying that anything that He did was, you know. What I'm fighting is exactly what the Pharisees were saying about Jesus, and I know I don't want the thoughts, but they won't get out of my head, and it's like I really do believe them, even though I don't want to, and even though it doesn't make sense. It's like I'm trying to convince myself that the thought is wrong, but my mind won't take that as an answer. I'm honestly sick of this, and wish that I would have died before this happened. I don't understand how I, as a Christian, could actually believe this crap, despite knowing what is right. And no one has really answered how what I'm doing is any different from what the Pharisees did, and what Jesus deemed unforgivable. And "it's just your OCD" doesn't seem like an acceptable answer to me; like wouldn't the Holy Spirit, if it was in me, prevent me from thinking and "believing" those thoughts? It doesn't make sense how this could be happening if I did have the Holy Spirit in me, OCD or not. I've also heard some people say that speaking those words is the unforgivable sin, which would really leave me hopeless, as I have told other people (including my therapist), with words, the thoughts going through my head, so that they would know exactly what I was going through. Whenever the thoughts enter my head, I become nauseous, because they're more than thoughts; it's like I am intellectually convinced that they are true, despite being a Christian my whole life and knowing that Jesus is God, and stuff like that. It makes no sense.

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The thinking "bad" thoughts is what makes OCD what it is. God COULD prevent you from having these intrusive thoughts, just like He could prevent arthritis and diabetes and a host of other illnesses and disorders. But our minds and bodies are broken, and that's why we suffer. BUT I think in your case, you're still not able to make the distinction between OCD and what you really want. You're saying that you hate these thoughts so much you wish you could have died first. Let me tell you right now - someone who wants to have these thoughts would not wish they were dead. They'd be quite thrilled to be having these thoughts. And you do not sound like someone who is happy to be having these thoughts. Now, your OCD is going to come up with some argument to counter that, arguing that you MUST mean/want them because xyz. That's OCD too. You have to stop trying to convince yourself that the thoughts are wrong, researching, rebuking/cancelling the thoughts - whatever you are doing to try to relieve the anxiety. Those are compulsions, and you're playing right into OCD's hand. Because the truth is, because of the OCD, you are NOT thinking clearly right now. Your brain is over-analyzing so much that you're missing major pieces of logic for looking at the inconsequential details. If you want to break the cycle, you must must must start saying no to the OCD. You can keep doing your compulsions, but you will keep feeding the OCD and it will just keep spiralling. This is incredibly hard, I know. I went through a very similar obsession, and I KNOW how sickening it is. It feels almost impossible to just let yourself ride through the anxiety, to let a thought come without trying to "counter" it in some way. But that's the thing - letting a thought just come through your head is NOT the same as meaning it, even if you "feel" like you "might" mean it.

Here's an illustration; not very scientific, but so be it. You have a nice clean pond. You love your pond. (This is your mind). Suddenly, one day, you see a bug floating on the surface of your pond. (This is an intrusive thought.) Most people would see the bug, realize it's not a big deal, let it float away and die. But you panic. The bug, you feel, is something you caused to be there. You feel that it's a bad thing, a dirty thing, a defilement of your beautiful pond/mind. You have to get it out, right now! You start swiping at it, and it floats further away. Oh no! You frantically plow through the pond, desperately trying to remove the bug. In the meantime, you're swirling up all sorts of mud and other dead bugs from the bottom of the pond. So you panic more and more and more. How could you be contaminating the pond so much? You must be a terrible person! So before you know it, you feel like you've committed so many terrible sins, and contaminated your pond/mind thoroughly. But the truth is, to someone watching from the side, all you're doing is swiping at bugs that are perfectly harmless. If you let them float on by, recognizing that they're not "evil" things that you want or have created but are meaningless things that are out of your control, they will quietly go away on their own.

So, basically, your pond (mind) is super muddy right now. Muddy with confusion and fear. You're terrified of the bugs you see, but in reality they're just bugs, not something sinful. You have to give the water a chance to settle down. You have to stop swiping frantically at the bugs by using your compulsions. If not, the water will just keep getting muddier and you will continue to stay afraid and confused. I know it's SO hard to do, but take a deep breath, try to relax, and little by little learn to stop your compulsions and let your thoughts just be there without freaking out about them. Having a thought does not mean you like or accept it. It means your very creative brain is using a very creative means to keep you freaked out - because it's working. As long as you keep freaking out about the thoughts, it will keep sending them. But I'm here to tell you - as someone who has lived through basically the same theme - this IS OCD and it WILL get better. You just have to work at it first.

Sorry about the very long response, and the kind of weird analogy. If you don't like it, make up your own analogy. But do start standing up to the OCD, and refusing to let it pull you into a cycle of compulsions and ruminating.

You're confused because of the OCD and because you are over-analyzing it. But I understand the feeling. I can reiterate what I already said: if you REALLY wanted to blaspheme, you would not be worried that you had done it or would do it. But while you are in the throes of your obsession, you are not going to be able to accept this answer. That's why you have to start treating the OCD even BEFORE you are convinced that it's OCD. It's that way for every. single. obsession. For example, for people with germ obsessions: "But how can I stop washing my hands if I don't KNOW they're clean? How do I KNOW the difference between being clean and not being clean?" But they're over-analyzing so much that their common sense is rubbed out and they can't differentiate. The truth is, you do "know" deep down. Your common sense is still working. It's just covered up with a heavy layer of doubt, fear, and hyper-analyzing.

You can analyze this whole thing to death, but realistically speaking, you only have two options: live as if your obsessive fear is true (decide that you have blasphemed and choose not to follow God anymore), or live as if it's not true (choose to follow God regardless of whether you feel like you've blasphemed or not). With OCD, it comes down to acting before we have the feeling - in your case, following God DESPITE your fears that you have blasphemed. Right now, you want to figure out the answer to your question: "Did I blaspheme/Do I want to blaspheme?" But, because your OCD is messing with your logic right now, no matter how much you analyze it, you will not be able to figure it out. You have to TRUST - one of the biggest hurdles for those of us with OCD. You have to TRUST your parents' opinions and advice. You have to TRUST those of us with OCD who are telling you that this IS OCD. You have to trust God - that He sees your heart, even when you can't figure it out yourself, and that He wants to have mercy on those who depend on Him for that mercy. Is God less powerful than this fear? I don't think so. He sees your confusion, your fear, and your desire for Him, and He is able to guide you out of that mess into peace and joy with Him again. It will happen. You just have to work on your OCD in the meantime.