Proof: You were only forgiven of your past sins!

Rescued One

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Many of the believers do NOT heed the many
dire warnings in the NT about the end results
of habitual sinning.

There are many reasons for this catastrophe
amongst the BACs!

They should know better, but there are
many reasons for this catastrophe also!

A person who delights in sin is not a true believer. We recognize a believer by his/her fruits ---God said so.

2 Corinthians 5
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Ezekiel 36
26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

Romans 6
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Titus 2
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Those who prefer sin over Christ, don't belong to Him.

John 14
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the
world? 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.


Matthew 7:16
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
 
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Rescued One

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About 20 of them CLEARLY speak of
losing eternal life, gaining eternal death,
NOT being allowed to enter the Kingdom of God,
NOT allowed into the city of the New Jerusalem,
being blotted OUT of the Book of Life, etc.

I'd be happy to send you a NT ...
... so you can read them for yourself.

GOD began the good work in us. We did NOT begin it in ourselves.

Psalm 138
8 The LORD will perfect that which concerneth me: thy mercy, O LORD, endureth for ever: forsake not the works of thine own hands.

Philippians 1
3 I thank my God upon every remembrance of you, 4 Always in every prayer of mine for you all making request with joy, 5 For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; 6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 1

4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ; 5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge; 6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you: 7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: 8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
 
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Rescued One

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Yes but none of your plucked verses makes the case for someone who is sealed losing their Justification.

Amen! God is faithful. Salvation is a GIFT of God and He won't give it if He has the intention of taking it back.

Daniel 4
35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Isaiah 14
27 For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?
 
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BNR32FAN

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A person who delights in sin is not a true believer. We recognize a believer by his/her fruits ---God said so.

2 Corinthians 5
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Ezekiel 36
26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

Romans 6
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Titus 2
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Those who prefer sin over Christ, don't belong to Him.

John 14
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the
world? 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.


Matthew 7:16
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

The scriptures also say

He (The Father) cuts off every branch IN ME (in Christ) that doesn’t produce fruit, and he prunes the branches that do bear fruit so they will produce even more.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:2‬

Jesus Himself says these branches are in Christ.
 
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FreeGrace2

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At the moment you were born-again …
you were only forgiven of the sins you had committed up to that point in time!

“For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his OLD sins. Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for IF you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”
(2 Peter 1:9-11, NKJV)

“OLD sins” is also in the KJV, RSV, NLT, AMP
It is obvious that Peter was only referring to the sins that a person would be aware of. How can anyone be aware of what sins they haven't committed yet?

Those who hold to this view of "only past sins" being forgiven must ignore or outright reject what Hebrews 7-10 says about "once for all".

The point is that Jesus Christ's sacrifice on the cross was a "once for all" sacrifice, which is clearly stated in Hebrews, esp ch 10, which the poster seems to be unaware of.

10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God,

14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

It would be interesting how the OP poster would explain these verses, but since he previously told me I am on "ignore", he doesn't see my posts.

Specifically, v.14 cannot be true IF Christ only died for one's sins before salvation.
 
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Rescued One

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The scriptures also say

He (The Father) cuts off every branch IN ME (in Christ) that doesn’t produce fruit, and he prunes the branches that do bear fruit so they will produce even more.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:2‬

Jesus Himself says these branches are in Christ.

The olive tree or vine referred to Israel in ancient times. God chose Israel as a whole to be His people. If the Gentiles are lacking in faith, they will be cut off. Not all Gentiles have been born again even if they are included in the visible Church.

Some of the Israelites weren't able to enter the Promised Land because of unbelief.
Hebrews 3

Lack of fruit is evidence of not being a true Christian.
 
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Phil W

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Sanctification is the process of us being conformed into the likeness of Jesus. If you say that process is completed then you would never sin.
That is correct.
My old self was killed for it's sins, buried, and raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.(Rom 6:3-7)
Along with the death of my "flesh" came also the death of my affections and lusts. (Gal 5:24)


Once sanctification is completed a person is then glorified.
Scripture, please.

The past tense used in Hebrews 10:14 doesn’t necessarily mean the process has been completed.
The only reason to deny the obvious word usage is to slip in something that allows one to continue in the darkness/sin.

I can say a cake is baked in an oven and it doesn’t mean a cake has already been baked it simply describes how it is or will be baked. Another example would be the papers are processed by immigration. This doesn’t indicate that the papers that are mentioned are already processed.
If you say the cake "was" baked in an oven...doesn't it remove the doubt on its tense?
"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." seems clear to me that it has happened in the past.
But more importantly, that it can keep happening for each generation of those who love God above all else and their neighbors as themselves.
I thank God for that comfort.
 
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Phil W

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Rather difficult, isn't it.
How about being made LESS set apart and holy?
How about just forget the whole thing?
Less than holy is...unholy.

At the end of one's life (or perhaps before),
the Lord has every right to CANCEL a BAC's
right to eternal life with Him in heaven! ...
IF he has NOT repented sufficiently of his sins
after becoming a BAC.
(I've already proved that the new BAC
has only had his PAST sins forgiven.)
For sure.
Repentance means "turn from", so more sin means there was only a...pause from sin.
God won't recognize that.
 
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BNR32FAN

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The olive tree or vine referred to Israel in ancient times. God chose Israel as a whole to be His people. If the Gentiles are lacking in faith, they will be cut off. Not all Gentiles have been born again even if they are included in the visible Church.

Some of the Israelites weren't able to enter the Promised Land because of unbelief.
Hebrews 3

Lack of fruit is evidence of not being a true Christian.

Romans 11 and John 15 are two completely different teachings. Romans 11 deals with unbelief John 15 deals with abiding in Christ which results in bearing much fruit. John 15:1 Jesus specifically says He is the vine, not Israel. So every branch that The Father cuts off that is in Christ is referring to people who are in Christ who are then cut off from Christ for failing to abide. This has nothing to do with Israel.
 
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Phil W

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I just cannot use that passage to refer
to Jesus setting us FREE from sin ...
because it doesn't say that specifically.
It is written..."
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin."
Verse 34 is the "punch line".
Jesus says the truth shall make us free...from service to sin.
And I thank God for this freedom.
 
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BNR32FAN

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That is correct.
My old self was killed for it's sins, buried, and raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.(Rom 6:3-7)
Along with the death of my "flesh" came also the death of my affections and lusts. (Gal 5:24)



Scripture, please.


The only reason to deny the obvious word usage is to slip in something that allows one to continue in the darkness/sin.


If you say the cake "was" baked in an oven...doesn't it remove the doubt on its tense?
"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." seems clear to me that it has happened in the past.
But more importantly, that it can keep happening for each generation of those who love God above all else and their neighbors as themselves.
I thank God for that comfort.

The word glorified is not in the scriptures it was used by the church to refer to people who have completed the sanctification process.

Hebrews 10:14 does say was sanctified so saying the cake was baked in an oven isn’t in the same grammar usage.

“For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.”
‭‭HEBREWS‬ ‭10:14‬ ‭NASB‬‬

The words are sanctified can refer to either someone who is already currently sanctified or some who will be sanctified. If I say all the prisoners who are processed in at booth 5 go to cell B that doesn’t only refer to prisoners who have already been processed but also those who will be processed. This example is using the same grammar usage.
 
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BNR32FAN

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For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."

That doesn’t say when they were sanctified it says how they were sanctified.

So your sanctified and you are like Christ now? You never sin?
 
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Rescued One

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Romans 11 and John 15 are two completely different teachings. Romans 11 deals with unbelief John 15 deals with abiding in Christ which results in bearing much fruit. John 15:1 Jesus specifically says He is the vine, not Israel. So every branch that The Father cuts off that is in Christ is referring to people who are in Christ who are then cut off from Christ for failing to abide. This has nothing to do with Israel.

Those who weren't given faith can't abide, don't abide, can't produce fruit, and don't produce fruit.
 
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Rescued One

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Romans 11 and John 15 are two completely different teachings. Romans 11 deals with unbelief John 15 deals with abiding in Christ which results in bearing much fruit. John 15:1 Jesus specifically says He is the vine, not Israel. So every branch that The Father cuts off that is in Christ is referring to people who are in Christ who are then cut off from Christ for failing to abide. This has nothing to do with Israel.

Jesus is God. Those who were not given salvation will not abide.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Those who weren't given faith can't abide, don't abide, can't produce fruit, and don't produce fruit.

But in John 15 Jesus is speaking to his 11 faithful apostles. They are the only people present. Jesus says to them in verse 4

“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.”
‭‭JOHN‬ ‭15:4‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Why would Jesus tell them this if they were incapable of failing to abide? Was He warning them of doing something they are incapable of doing? Did they not have faith yet?

Let’s examine Romans 6, the verses you quoted, a little closer.

“What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too MIGHT (doesn’t say will) walk in newness of life. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin MIGHT be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body (apparently we are still capable of allowing sin to reign in our body) so that you obey its lusts, and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness (apparently we are capable of presenting the members of our body to sin and unrighteousness); but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.”
‭‭ROMANS‬ ‭6:1-14‬ ‭NASB

If I said you can’t keep coming to work late does that mean it is impossible for you to keep coming to work late or does it mean you will get fired if you do? Your not reading this in the correct context. Jesus obviously knew that it was possible for His faithful 11 apostles to fail to abide (remain) in Him which is why He warned them of the consequences.
 
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redleghunter

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That verse says are sealed with the Holy Spirit not sealed with salvation. The Holy Spirit is like a compass always pointing us towards God. He does not steer the boat. If we fall asleep at the wheel we can wake to find ourselves way off course or perhaps even worse, shipwrecked.
Well I did not think it fair to actually post all of chapter.

Ephesians 1: KJV

1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: 2Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 7In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; 8Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

9Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: 10That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.


15Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints, 16Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers; 17That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
 
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redleghunter

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“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.”
‭‭JOHN‬ ‭15:4‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Why would Jesus tell them this if they were incapable of failing to abide? Was He warning them of doing something they are incapable of doing? Did they not have faith yet?
Why cut off the words of Christ in verse 10 of that discourse:

John 15: NASB

1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. 3“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. 5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. 6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. 7“If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8“My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples. 9“Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love. 10“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

This is where most stop. There's more:

11“These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full.
Does not sound like Jesus is giving them a stern warning about perishing and losing their salvation. He is teaching them though.


Now this the confirmation:

12“This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you. 13“Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends. 14“You are My friends if you do what I command you. 15“No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you.
And now this showing the 11 were chosen, that they were appointed to go and bear fruit and that the fruit they produced would remain (remain not get burned or lost).

16“You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. 17“This I command you, that you love one another.
 
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redleghunter

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Jesus is God. Those who were not given salvation will not abide.
Indeed. This Vine discourse in John 15 occurs after they just leave the upper room and Judas departed to betray Jesus.
 
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Phil W

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The word glorified is not in the scriptures it was used by the church to refer to people who have completed the sanctification process.
You were the one who added "glorified" in post # 254.
And if your "church" has added to scripture...that is on them to repent of.

Hebrews 10:14 does say was sanctified so saying the cake was baked in an oven isn’t in the same grammar usage.
“For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.”
‭‭HEBREWS‬ ‭10:14‬ ‭NASB‬‬
It looks like the same grammar to me.
The "offering" has been completed. That offering has perfected for ever those who were sanctified.

The words are sanctified can refer to either someone who is already currently sanctified or some who will be sanctified. If I say all the prisoners who are processed in at booth 5 go to cell B that doesn’t only refer to prisoners who have already been processed but also those who will be processed. This example is using the same grammar usage.
Doesn't it look like the sanctification came first?
How?
"...we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." (Heb 10:10)
As the offering has been completed, so also has the perfecting.
 
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Phil W

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That doesn’t say when they were sanctified it says how they were sanctified.

So your sanctified and you are like Christ now? You never sin?
That is correct.
The blood of Christ has been applied to me for the atonement of my sins.
I, like the temple and its gear, am sanctified thereby.
By the blood of the Lamb.
I accepted God's gift of repentance, and consider my "turn from" sin permanent.
For this, I received the gift of the Holy Ghost, Comforter, seal of the inheritance, and the mind of Christ.
And I give God the glory, for His immeasurable grace.
 
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