Majority of Americans say heartbeat abortion bans are not too restrictive

HatGuy

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The U.S. is not a patriarchal society if you mean mostly men having rights and power. Other states have female governors and we almost had a female president. The patriarchy was common 100 years ago, but those days are over. It is a shame that Alabama is not catching up in the Statehouse, as it did with voting for a woman to control the executive branch, because a clear message was sent that they don't care a lot about women when only one woman supported the bill.
But still, as I've said elsewhere (and you never replied), there are many, many women in the U.S. (and the world) who are pro-life. Why does their opinion not seem to count for anything?
 
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Yekcidmij

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What you are saying reminds me of our nation's drone policy. We use drones to be purposeful, to kill dangerous terrorists before they can strike against us with minimal danger to our troops.

But, as in in-vitro fertilization, where all of a woman's eggs are harvested and fertilized even if only one or two children are contemplated, drones cast a wide net.

Despite their noble purpose, there are frequently innocents who are killed--children, women, civilians.

Part of the intent, both in in-vitro fertilization and drone usage, is the knowledge that, however reluctantly, there will be lives destroyed.

It looks like you're promoting a form of ethical consequentialism. I'm not sure that works well as an ethical system, and so I think it may fall short when evaluating moral decisions individuals make. It doesn't seem to include a framework for what ought to be done as it doesn't consider intent and purpose. If this is correct, then I'm not sure how you could attribute any moral content to individuals themselves and the choices they make. There would be no moral difference between someone who accidentally hit someone with a car because they fell asleep at the wheel after working a 12 hour night shift to provide for their 4 kids (ie, manslaughter) vs a premeditated murderer who murders for personal pleasure. Perhaps both should get the death penalty?

I'm not clear why someone who is pro-life should accept this as a framework for moral decisions. You may believe it's the case, but I'm not sure why a pro-lifer should agree. I don't think one would be required to accept a consequentialist position when evaluating the morality of a couple undergoing IVF vs someone conducting abortion as a form of birth control.

As a side note, I'm also not convinced that a national "drone policy" (if there is such a defined "policy," and I suspect this isn't defined as a national policy) is analogous to IVF (or abortion for that matter). In the case of a drone pilot, the decesions, mental processes, reasons and intent of the pilot (as well as possible outcomes of actions) seem vastly different from a couple trying to create new life. In any case, I'm not convinced that categorizing the actions of an abstract, generic "drone pilot" or "drone-policy-maker" is even a valid or comparable category for moral evaluations.
 
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Calminian

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When the egg is fertilized it begins to divide, first it's two, then four, then it's eight. Those cells are not fingernails, those are stem cells with every genetic code for everything in the human body. I remember Clinton early in the campaign made this capricious statement, 'abortion is a health care issue, health care is an American issue, opposing abortion is unamerican'. I don't remember exactly how she said it but it was a gross over simplification of the issue. Women should have total autonomy over what happens to their bodies but where there is an unborn fetus/baby, this is fundamentally different then whether or not you donate an organ. The issue has gotten polarized, which is why I have avoided it like the plague. With Roe v. Wade likely to be revisited I felt it was time to take another look at it. I think conservative states are going too far myself, not that I really disagree in principle. They had better chose their test case wisely or the left will choose for them and conservatives don't want that.

Mark, are you no longer voting for pro-abortion democrats? Are you finally seeing the light on this?
 
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Calminian

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It is not a rape victim's fault if she gets pregnant. Rape is being forced to have sex after she tells him no. Also, too many states (including Alabama) do not have strict sex education laws. It is not the girl's fault if she has no idea contraceptives are necessary at her age.

But this is such a small percentage of all abortions, and most will make an exception for rape. I, personally, would prefer an additional charge for any man the rapes in impregnates a woman. In fact, if she aborts, he should be charged with murder.

And do you really have such a low opinion of women that unless the state tells them they need contraception they won't know? Gosh, that's kind of insulting.
 
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Calminian

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I will also add that even in the case of rape, not being given the choice to become pregnant does not give you the authority to take the life of another.

One of my adoptive children has been alleged to come about this way, but it's never been verified. But the thought that she has less rights than anyone else is vial. That said, I can see why it would be hard for a rape victim to carry the child to term. If she can't, I say charge the rapist with murder.
 
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Calminian

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I don't know how a rapist can be charged with murder that was committed by a doctor. He did not decide whether the baby should live or die. But there is no reason to punish the doctor for what the father did.

He created a life against a woman's will. If the woman cannot deal with bringing that baby to term and she aborts, it's his fault. I say lock him up for life.
 
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Calminian

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Murder is a legal term meaning the unlawful taking of a human life. Abortion is not illegal thus not murder.

Killing Jews during the holocaust in Germany was also not illegal.
 
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Calminian

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According to God, Yes, the "viable" human life has rights...see my post above...#101 on Scripture wisdom on viable life rights.

Absolutely. In fact, both Jesus and John the Baptist were spoken of a persons while they were in the womb.
 
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Calminian

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Any poll should start with democraphics: if you leave the gender questoin blank you can't continue taking it. Only men voted for Alabama's abortion ban and the reason is self-explanatory.

Do you have any evidence to back this up?
 
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But still, as I've said elsewhere (and you never replied), there are many, many women in the U.S. (and the world) who are pro-life. Why does their opinion not seem to count for anything?

And, of course, about half of the babies aborted are female. What about their rights?
 
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