No, it's not important for you to make that assessment at all, any more than it's important for you to assess whether James Kirk is a better starship captain than Jean Luc Picard. It's all make believe to you either way.
Upvote
0
Is it Ethical to be fired for stating Christian beliefs
- Thread starter Zoii
- Start date
No, it's not important for you to make that assessment at all, any more than it's important for you to assess whether James Kirk is a better starship captain than Jean Luc Picard. It's all make believe to you either way.
stevil
Godless and without morals
That's pretty much what my post said.
Belief in things that you have seen would be termed justified belief
Belief in things that you haven't seen would be termed unjustified belief. Or in your words "faith"
We'll have to agree to disagree here.
I consider that a good parent teaches their kids to question what they are told even if it is mum and dad that are doing the telling.
When my kids question what I tell them, well , it makes me smile. I have done my job well.
In fact I sometimes lie to my kids, so that they will prove what I have said is wrong. I call it practicing for the real world, enabling my kids to develop the tools to cut through mis-information.
Upvote
0
stevil
Godless and without morals
Exactly, and his/her example of telling their kids what to believe (have faith in) goes along the "luck" lines where if a kid is lucky enough to have Christian parents then they will believe in Jesus or unlucky enough to have Hindu parents then they will believe in Vishnu and perish in hell.
It seems the Christian god favours and values those that are randomly lucky.
Upvote
0
Kaon
Well-Known Member
- Mar 12, 2018
- 5,676
- 2,349
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Other Religion
- Marital Status
- Celibate
It proves Kirks point to me - if you look deeper.
He was being facetious because explaining the intricacies of FAITH to someone who doesnt have faith is FUTILITY. That is why (I gathered) @RDKirk said, "...its all make believe TO YOU."
You are just entertaining a thougform; this is the life and meaning for others. Just like you said: for YOU, it is unjustified belief, but for others it is completely justified.
Would rather not dedicate on others faith, no?
Last edited:
Upvote
0
You think you don't. I compared it to Star Trek for a reason--there are people who actually live according to Star Trek ethics, as they have magnified them to be from Star Trek fictional lore. There may be more Trek-believers than Jainists.
Upvote
0
Yes if kids are born to Christian parents they are fortunate. It's a blessing. Everyone else however is without excuse, because everyone else has an opportunity to believe. There are Christian churches or missionaries or Christians in every country. They are spreading the good news. And if someone NEVER hears the gospel and is reaching out to God, God will find them. I don't know how, God doesn't say. I also don't judge that God does and his judgement is true.
Upvote
0
- Oct 13, 2016
- 5,811
- 3,982
- 23
- Country
- Australia
- Faith
- Seeker
- Marital Status
- Single
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
- Aug 8, 2012
- 6,299
- 7,453
- 75
- Country
- Australia
- Faith
- Atheist
- Marital Status
- Divorced
By definition an unjustified belief is one that lacks evidence. The fact that you believe it doesn't make it true. You may have some inner feeling which, for you, seems to justify that belief. This may be a similar inner feeling to that experienced by many other people who are also convinced that their particular god is the right one. Unjustified belief in the supernatural appears to be a common human condition.
In the material world, there is an absence of evidence for gods.
I have no idea what your last sentence means.
OB
Upvote
0
Kaon
Well-Known Member
- Mar 12, 2018
- 5,676
- 2,349
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Other Religion
- Marital Status
- Celibate
Evidence is subjective; what you call evidence could be a farce to me, or a god. It is the same thing with morality, ethics, logic and knowledge. Only Truth is absolute; everything else is psychologically and sensationally calibrated to fit a model of idealism.
In other words, none of our beliefs make us right - which is why you shouldn't defecate on someone else's beliefs. The metric which determines evidence is a matter of opinion.
Feelings lie.
Feelings lie. Perception lies. Logic is a psychological prison of veiled subjectivity passed off as objectivity - most people are handicapped by their feelings and logic. Truth is absolute.
For you there is an absence of evidence of gods, which just speaks to what you can perceive, and of what you perceive you can understand (not the existence of something).
You don't have the knowledge or basis to defecate on someone's faith or beliefs based on what you believe - no matter how elegant you believe the source of your evidence is. None of us do.
Upvote
0
Which kinda shows that the idea that Christians are being persecuted for telling the truth doesn't line up with reality. An unjustified opinion is pretty far from the truth.
Upvote
0
I honestly have no idea why you'd think this was in any way a useful response to what I wrote.
Upvote
0
Kaon
Well-Known Member
- Mar 12, 2018
- 5,676
- 2,349
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Other Religion
- Marital Status
- Celibate
You are marginalizing a very serious issue by confusing your own faith in systems with your projection and perception of truth and reality. The issue of persecution is separate from the issue of truth: people still die for lies, as they do for the truth. China, for example, not only treats Christianity and Islam as a threat to the empire, but they are also killing these people who believe what they believe. Why? Because of what they represent. It doesn't matter if one, both or none of them are true; what matters is the message of hope and independence of man on the State except for the Most High God.
Your comment is a classic example of the difference between projection, perception, reality and truth. You perceive there is no persecution based on your perception of reality. You then project what you have concluded as the truth when it is actually an opinion justified primarily by your psychology.
Any opinion can be far from the truth, but not every opinion is not true - which would make me careful as to what I personally deem "unjustified" or "crazy" since I don't have the ability to detect lies with 100% accuracy (for example). What I consider wacky and unjustified may be the truth; it would be a shame for my (super)ego to reason that I should reject the information - especially based on prejudice of the source. But, this happens every day, which is why humanity is always had.
All it takes is someone who knows the psychology of a lot, and to exploit the ego of the lot to the point that the lot believes their thinking is entirely their own - not a systematically altered form of consciousness by proxy (i.e. extreme psychological manipulation). It is how you keep dumb people dumb, and smart people too arrogant to be prescient.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
stevil
Godless and without morals
My understanding of Christian culture is very rudimentary, and I do understand that Christianity is a very broad umbrella term. But I expect that being born into a strongly Christian family could potentially be a curse. I have seen many atheists on atheist websites talk about their experiences being brought up in American Christian families, especially those coming from the bible belt. The way some of the have been treated, I would consider as abusive.
This doesn't make much sense to me. There are also Muslims in every country, also Hindus, also Buddhists and the list goes on.
All of them have amazing claims (miracles) that no-one today has witnessed and that would be very extraordinary if true.
They all are imploring people to simply believe these things have happened and not to look for evidence.
So we get back to the part where the prospective believer is rolling a dice or throwing a dart blindfolded in order to choose which one to have an unjustified belief in.
And so, in the Christian belief system we have a god that rewards the lucky ones and punishes the unlucky ones.
Myself, I am more likely to help out people that have been unlucky, I give them my sympathy, and my support. I certainly don't look to punish them.
Myself, I look poorly upon people that make choices to believe something and disregard alternatives without any supporting evidence. I consider this to be close mindedness, and it isn't a virtue, it isn't a blessing. I look even more poorly on people that hold this unsupported position and look to spread it to others. I consider that very dangerous and disingenuous. For example, people spreading the anti-vax message and pseudo science propaganda.
There are Christian churches or missionaries or Christians in every country. They are spreading the good news. And if someone NEVER hears the gospel and is reaching out to God, God will find them. I don't know how, God doesn't say. I also don't judge that God does and his judgement is true.[/QUOTE]
Upvote
0
- Oct 13, 2016
- 5,811
- 3,982
- 23
- Country
- Australia
- Faith
- Seeker
- Marital Status
- Single
As a follow-up, Folau's appeal was not upheld and he has been sacked and his 4 Million dollar contract torn up. His sponsors have abandoned him.
Folau is now taking the matter to the industrial courts.
Israel Folau: Rugby Australia dismissal, Stuart Wood, Supreme Court, Rugby Australia.
Folau is now taking the matter to the industrial courts.
Israel Folau: Rugby Australia dismissal, Stuart Wood, Supreme Court, Rugby Australia.
Upvote
0
- Oct 13, 2016
- 5,811
- 3,982
- 23
- Country
- Australia
- Faith
- Seeker
- Marital Status
- Single
Israel Folau has continued his instagram posts telling everyone "Those living in sin will burn in hell" resulting in a massive back-lash by large cohorts of the Australian community.
What is interesting is that several sportsman have commented on Folau's drunken episodes, thus highlighting the hypocrisy in Christianity and Folau specifically. They also point to Folau's support of convicted priests, and the level of support within Christianity for convicted paedophile Cardinal George Pell.
Israel Folau's hypocrisy exposed as Waratahs and Wallabies star's Instagram post get inundated with comments
What is interesting is that several sportsman have commented on Folau's drunken episodes, thus highlighting the hypocrisy in Christianity and Folau specifically. They also point to Folau's support of convicted priests, and the level of support within Christianity for convicted paedophile Cardinal George Pell.
Israel Folau's hypocrisy exposed as Waratahs and Wallabies star's Instagram post get inundated with comments
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
stevil
Godless and without morals
Yes it is a matter of opinion, but this doesn't invalidate the distinction between justified belief vs unjustified belief.
Because the assessment is done by the person holding the beliefs, not by the person doing the critique.
It is "the eye of the beholder" at play and this is part of the person's personal epistemology (how they attain knowledge).
People tend to call justified beliefs "facts". I don't say that I believe in the moon. I say that it is a fact that the moon exists.
But when I don't have evidence in support of my position I use the word "Believe". I believe life exists in our universe beyond earth. I don't have proof of this, so it is self-proclaimed as a belief.
If a Christian is stating that they have faith, and believe in god. Then they are self-proclaiming to have an unjustified belief (a belief without supporting evidence) (to have not seen and yet believed). This is a self assessment.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
