In what consists the love from the world?

Anything done wrong against you is actually a wrong done against God. So when some of the world hates you, they actually hate God, which is a big no-no.

I think "love of the world" includes a love / preference for sensory enjoyment. Things which please us for a little while, but are if no eternal value.

I think we can love these things as we should live God, or each other. Especially if we push out God or people to fill our time with trifling stuff.

peter2 said:

Sounds like you share in this paranoïa of mine.. Thank you, AllDayFaith.

More precisely, i wondered why Jesus spoke of "love" ? Can possibly this feeling of the world be made of the same products and by-products as any christian love? Difficult to Believe! Yet it's written! Is it really The same feeling of today's Gospel, about which he commands us to have for one another ?

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The issue is love versus LOVE. If that makes sense. It's not actually the same kind of love.

We need to look at the original Greek to really understand this since there are multiple words for love that were used in the New Testament and each had a slightly different meaning. also, it's important to look at what is meant by "world" here. Is it just everyone who isn't a Christian or is it something else?

So the word for "would love" here is ephilei which comes from the root phileo. Phileo love is used to refer to the affection of close friends or even strong enough to give someone a kiss. The word used for "world" in this verse is kosmon which comes from kosmos and ultimately komizo. Unfortunately, that word could mean anything from a specific group of people to humanity at large, so we can only make our best guess at what the word is referring to based on the context.

Looking at the context, we see that just before, Jesus uses His vine and branches imagery which speaks of those who are cut off from the vine. I would take those to be the "world" Jesus is referring to later on.

This verse has interesting parallels with John 3:16 "For God so loved the world He gave His only son; that whoever believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life." In John 3:16, the word used for "loved" is ēgapēsen which ultimately comes from agape. This kind of love means "to wish well to", "to long for", "to take pleasure in". The word for "world" is the same in both verses.

Looking at the context of John 15:19, we see that it also immediately follows Jesus telling His disciples to love each other as He loved them The word used is agape once again just like the word used for God's love for the world in John 3:16. When Jesus refers to the world's love, though, Jesus switches to using phileo instead, making a clear distinction between the two kinds of love.

In conclusion, I think we can safely deduce that the world has an emotional phileo love and affection for those like itself. But the world doesn't have that affection for us because we do not belong to the same moral system.

However, the love that comes from God is different in an important way. It's agape love which is something more profound than mere emotions. God had agape for a sinful messed up world and the disciples were told to have agape for each other. It is a kind love you have for those you may not even like necessarily. It comes from the realization that every person is made in the image of God - and for Christians, a brother ir sister in Christ. For it to truly be agape and not just tolerance, the Spirit must be involved.

Just like God's agape love for the world, we can have agape love for the world, too, as we "wish well to" them, "take pleasure in" them and "long for" them to draw them out of the world's moral system and into something far better.

So there you go. My somewhat scatterbrained exegesis.

peter2 said:

Hello Messerve, thank you
Actually, it seems to confirm a hypothesis of mine: The phileo probably refers to "possessivity" of the brethren, whereas agape doesn't. Is this in accordance with your exegesis?
This, however, contradicts a theory of mine: i indeed thought the world tried to manufacture agape in order to deceive people. Therefore, it probably tries, but fails, since Jesus used phileo in this context.
May i conclude to its total inability to elaborate agape ? Is all of its know-how contained in a mere power of deception?

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I think you're right about phileo. It seems to indicate a kind of love in which you almost claim that person as your own or part of your group.

Agape isn't just blind tolerance - like "live and let live". Tolerance is what the world manufactures to deceive people. Agape is different because there is true love in it. agape is when you love a person because he or she is made in the image of God. You may not see eye-to-eye or really like each other that much, but because you know God created this person and has value, the Spirit gives you the ability to love them anyway. Agape should lead to encouraging someone to walk closer to God or to surrender his or her life to Jesus. Tolerance just lets a person slowly die in sin and isn't love at all.

Messerve said:

I think you're right about phileo. It seems to indicate a kind of love in which you almost claim that person as your own or part of your group.

Agape isn't just blind tolerance - like "live and let live". Tolerance is what the world manufactures to deceive people. Agape is different because there is true love in it. agape is when you love a person because he or she is made in the image of God. You may not see eye-to-eye or really like each other that much, but because you know God created this person and has value, the Spirit gives you the ability to love them anyway. Agape should lead to encouraging someone to walk closer to God or to surrender his or her life to Jesus. Tolerance just lets a person slowly die in sin and isn't love at all.

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You win the internet today!

Michie said:

You win the internet today!

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Yes!!! I have so many plans for it.

peter2 said:

It should, i agree.
Yet, maybe is it difficult to make agape perceived as agape by people that Don't manufacture some. for it's then perceived as mere possessivity, through their inability to Believe such a love does exist. But it's another issue..

19 And this is the judgment, that the light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil. (John 3)
Someone wrote to me that here, "loved" was also translated from the Greek "agape"
Reminded me of:
4 And it came to pass, while they were perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in dazzling apparel: 5 and as they were affrighted and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead? Luke 24
I Wonder then whether love of darkness doesn't or does make people unbelievers, and henceforth, from unbelievers, lovers of darkness..etc.. The overall vicious circle leading men and world to fall..
Vicious circle broken by Christ resurrection. Henceforth, believers do know the living doesn't lie among the dead..
Do you think so, too, you, or any other reader?

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Yes, I think loving someone that you don't really like is a strange concept to those who don't know Jesus. It seems like foolishness until you have the Spirit and that kind of love.

The word "agape" is used in the context of these verses to indicate that God loves the world despite it's sin. Like the image of a snake was raised by Moses so the people could be healed and saved, Jesus was raised up on a cross and everyone who looks to Him for help is healed and saved. God loved the Israelites despite their sin, and He loves the rest of the world in spite of it's sin, similarly. Since God is it's creator and all humanity is made in His likeness, then it makes sense for Him to still take pleasure in humanity to a degree, simply for the fact that in some very minute ways we still resemble Himself. If God didn't love us like this, then Jesus would never have come at all, and that's the whole point of John 3:16 -17.

You make an interesting point that "agape", however, is also used in other verses where it isn't a holy kind of love. John 3:19 comes right after John 3:16 and uses "agape" to refer to the world's love of darkness, which forces the reader to think there is a comparison being made here. Namely, God's love for the world versus the world's love for darkness. The world longs for, pursues, and encourages sin in the same way that God longs for, pursues, and encourages holiness in us. The love of darkness is a spiritual love still, but it does not come from the Holy Spirit. It comes from Satan and his demons. So the word "agape" is still accurate to describe it. It's almost like Jesus was trying to indicate just how strong the world's love of sin is, that the world loves sin is as infinitely evil as God's love for humanity is infinitely good.

It's still different from the world's "phileo" kind of love in that "phileo" doesn't necessarily encourage a certain action but is simply a feeling of brotherhood and oneness with someone. So once you succumb to the world's dark "agape" love, you can expect to receive it's "phileo" love as well. You don't want that.

To clarify, "phileo" love isn't sinful. It can be a wonderful thing to experience. But in the context of John 15:19 it was referring to the sinful world having a love for those like itself - namely evil and unrepentant. You can have "phileo" love for another person that you simply like and love, too. So the Spirit isn't quite as needed to keep the peace between you.

Anyone else?

peter2 said:

To sum up, what comes from the Holy Spirit (agape) also comes from Satan? (without considering the obvious difference it's directed towards two different materials(darkness versus light))
Sorry, i find this accuracy Strange..

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"Agape" is a Greek word. The Church has kind of claimed "agape" as a word that specifically describes the love of God and the love He gives us through the Spirit. And it is often used that way in the Bible, so it's usually the right meaning in that context. But it's still a Greek word, not a Church word. It was just part of the normal Greek language they used every day. and people probably used it in a number of different ways. So for Jesus to use it to describe the love the world has for darkness is not inaccurate but is still in accordance with it's Greek definition.

For the times "agape" and it's derivations are used in the Bible it is almost always a positive attribute. That's why I say that to use "agape" to refer to the world's love of darkness was intentional by Jesus to make a comparison, considering He just used it to refer to God's love for the world.

It's fine to still say "agape" is the love that comes from God, because that is usually what it is used to describe in the Bible. There are just a couple places where it is used in a different way. 2 Peter 2:15 is another one where it describes a sinful kind of love. Reading on to 2 Peter 2:19, you can see Peter is specifically talking about those who love the darkness enough to try to introduce it to others, too. That's the same way Jesus used it in John 3:19

I'm not a Bible scholar really, but I did take classes in Exegesis and Hermeneutics. So take what I say with a grain of salt. Do research on your own, too. But this is my best analysis of the word currently...