Kylie
Defeater of Illogic
Kylie - "And since the evidence for my dragon is the same as the evidence for your Jesus, you should, no doubt, now firmly believe that the dragon in my backyard exists, right?"
I do not believe the evidence is comparable when i consider how you responded so far. Lets get into a little more.
A comparison is being made between belief in a dragon deity who you made up recently - a deity you do not even believe exists.
Compared to a belief in Jesus Christ who is proclaimed Son Of God and is claimed to be the reconciliation between man and God. Jesus has been believed by many for nearly 2000 years and belief in the God of Abraham since 23rd/22nd bc (.eg 4000yrs)
I don't know how you got the idea that the Dragon was made up by me. I never said such a thing.
Lets start with 3 examples i want you to consider.
1. Time is an interesting note here as your dragon deity "is what allows life and the universe itself to exist." Conservatively, a belief in the God of Abraham has been in existance for just over 4000 yrs and has multiple historic documents, and accounts.
This is the first time i have heard of this dragon deity with these attributes and no one edore has claimed anything similar.
How do you account for this discrepancy?
Why do you assume that any kind of deity MUST make itself known to all Humans?
2. There were 12 disciples and 4 gospels. These 4 document - whether true or false, that is a matter of trust either way - are still witnesses for the crucifixion of Jesus and His teachings.
Compared to a dragon deity who pops thoughts into your head, you have no other witnesses or historical documents. What do you think here and please give me more than just one sentence. I want you to perform!
If they are false, then they are evidence of nothing.
And again you seem to think you have some cause to believe that the Dragon is a figment of my imagination, when you have no such evidence.
3. I have no extra incentive to consider your deity. Your deity blesses, so does mine. Your deity gives you joy, so does mine. Your deity cannot secure my afterlife yet is the reason for life and the universe.
From all your explanations so far i come to the conclusion that your deity wasnt thought through very well and i have no need for him.
So if a person tells you that they have a deity that brings them joy, do you believe them or not? WHy does it depend on whether the deity is one that you already have a belief in? That seems like a double standard to me - you'll believe if it suits you to believe.
We have far more sources for Jesus of Nazareth than we do for many historical figures in the first century. We have at least 18. Twelve of those are non-Christian sources
There are no reliable contemporary sources for Jesus. And yet you are speaking with a woman who has experienced the Dragon first hand right now. How can you claim that it's the same thing? You have direct access to an eyewitness to the Dragon.
As for the Scriptures, Prof. Darrell Bock of the Dallas Theological Seminary explained that any piece of a surviving ancient work is called a manuscript. And more ancient pages or fragments of the Bible have survived by far than any other book from antiquity.
Irrelevant. Are the fragments written by people who were there? Do they come from the same time period as the events they describe? The fact they are old by itself means nothing.
So far You have me told about the Dragon but the comparison falls short and in no way comparable to Jesus. Last chance what more can this dragon deity whom you preach offer me compared to Christ. I still need convincing?
What if I turned it around? What if I asked you what Jesus can offer me that the Dragon can't? What would you say?
Where did i say that?
Post 21:
You convinced me.
I now believe there is an invisible dragon in your backyard who rewards faith with treasures of all sorts.
What do you think about a historical Jesus?
I think that there is insufficient evidence to support the existence of a historical Jesus.
The 'something better' you want to happen is to be able to measure God in a similar way to the volume and weight value for some water. Someone does a similar method to you and should get the same measurements for confirmation and comparison?
In the sense that I want some method for measuring God that is reliable. If you and I measure the chemical composition of water, we will get the same results. Anyone else who measures it will get the same results as both of us. I want a test for God that likewise produces identical results for all people who conduct the test.
What particular examples of measurements of God are you looking for?
Well, the Bible gives us a good example:
Matthew 17:20: For truly, I say to you, if you have faith like a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you.
If God does not exist in our universe, what good is a test that applys to physical and earthly things?
If God does not exist in our universe, how could he have done any of the things attributed to him in the Bible. If you take the Bible as fact, then God has interacted with our universe. Such interactions can be measured.
Give it a shot and have a think about it, how can we test the supernatural? How did you prove to your self that ghosts do not exist?
Why do you assume the default position is that ghosts DO exist?
Shouldn't we start with the assumption that nothing exists until we have sufficient evidence for it? Otherwise we'd be stuck believing in all sorts of weird nonsense. I could just as well ask you how you proved that the Dragon does not exist.
But once we start out as I suggested, the question becomes, "How did you prove to your self that ghosts do exist?" And when we get an answer to that question, we can see if the evidence holds up to investigation.
Right now it is estimated that there are 2.2 billion Christians and of that there are 280 million pentecostals. Pentecostals are growing faster than most denominations, what does that mean when we consider testing, replication and accuracy?
It means that out of 7.5 Billion people in the world, 5.3 billion think the Pentecostals are wrong. The numbers game does not support religion.
But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
John 14:26
Which does not fit what happened to me when I tried to believe.
When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me.
John 15:26
Which does not fit what happened to me when I tried to believe.
Lets look at spirital gifts as evidence. What do you think about speaking in tongues and divine healing as evidence?
How do I determine the difference between someone speaking in tongues and someone just speaking nonsense gibberish?
And can you show me a case of a legitimate faith healer?
No my friend this is not adequate. Ive put forward the chatge that have made a category error and i gave my reasons, could you show me why this/your line of reasoning is not a category error?
You are assuming it belongs in a separate category but you have not shown that this required category exists.
You wanted the truth. So you didnt want to try to appease your husband and you didnt do it with all your being and had 100% faith in Jesus?
Your search started off on the wrong foot. You had no faith, we have discovered your first issue with coming to Christ, you did not have trust or belief to begin with. You did not do what is needed and maybe you never will?
No, I did not start off on the wrong foot. I started off wanting the truth. I need evidence before I believe. I'm not going to believe in something without good reason to believe.
Lets say we see some facts.
There is a body, a knife in someones back and a pool of blood. What here would be considered evidence, beliefand sufficient reason? What would bias motivate here?
Would you consider yourself biased based on your beliefs and if not, why not?
Fingerprints on the knife, DNA left at the scene, etc.
Not sure what your point here is...
If it is 6000 years old, 6 billion years old or 6 mins to early it does not effect the doctrine of salvation and im happy to accept either.
Of course, if the universe is 6 minutes old, then Jesus couldn't have been cricified centuries ago, and thus your salvation doesn't exist, but hey...
This is the single objective truth you speak of, Got any others?
Nah, you've just made the claim. Telling me that it's an objective truth means nothing - you gotta SHOW me that it's the truth, and so far you haven't been able to do that at all.
Upvote
0