Does sinful man deserve God’s justice?

GodsGrace101

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 17, 2018
6,713
2,298
Tuscany
✟231,507.00
Country
Italy
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Whatever is written, whatever truly is revealed by the Father,
that is what I believe, no problem.
Well Y,
From being on these sites, I've found that not all Christians believe the same teachings of Christ.
So, now, when someone says something to mean, I feel that I really need to understand what they're saying or we could be misunderstanding each other.
 
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,944
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
Well Y,
From being on these sites, I've found that not all Christians believe the same teachings of Christ.
So, now, when someone says something to mean, I feel that I really need to understand what they're saying or we could be misunderstanding each other.

Yahweh clears that all up.

Most important, DID you get redeemed by the BLOOD OF THE LAMB, and, if so, why ask how to receive it ? (positive expectation)
 
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,944
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
Well Y,
From being on these sites, I've found that not all Christians believe the same teachings of Christ.
So, now, when someone says something to mean, I feel that I really need to understand what they're saying or we could be misunderstanding each other.
Misunderstanding is standard for people, especially on anonymous internet sites where whether someone is older or younger, well or sick (mentally or physically), alone or with others, etc etc etc is unknown almost all the time.
ie. don't put any weight on anything just because someone posts it, even if you agree with it. Total false credentials are used by the enemy in just such ways to deceive multitudes.
 
Upvote 0

GodsGrace101

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 17, 2018
6,713
2,298
Tuscany
✟231,507.00
Country
Italy
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Misunderstanding is standard for people, especially on anonymous internet sites where whether someone is older or younger, well or sick (mentally or physically), alone or with others, etc etc etc is unknown almost all the time.
ie. don't put any weight on anything just because someone posts it, even if you agree with it. Total false credentials are used by the enemy in just such ways to deceive multitudes.
I tend to trust people.
Take them at their word....

I've never considered what you're stating above.
I try to be honest with everyone...but yes, I have noticed that many times there are misunderstandings...
 
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,944
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
I tend to trust people.
Take them at their word....

I've never considered what you're stating above.
I try to be honest with everyone...but yes, I have noticed that many times there are misunderstandings...
We (many ) were RAISED as little children , trained, TO TRUST PEOPLE. But that is ungodly, unrighteous, wrong, and dangerous.

Yahuweh even says someplace: "whoever trusts in man , I Myself Curse" (even believers who put their trust in man/ in the flesh/ are often (or may be) cursed until they repent)
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

GodsGrace101

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 17, 2018
6,713
2,298
Tuscany
✟231,507.00
Country
Italy
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
We (many ) were RAISED as little children , trained, TO TRUST PEOPLE. But that is ungodly, unrighteous, wrong, and dangerous.

Yahuweh even says someplace: "whoever trusts in man , I Myself Curse" (even believers who put their trust in man/ in the flesh/ are often (or may be) cursed until they repent)
Oh. I agree about puttingn our trust in man for our spiritual well-being.

In fact, there are so many different ideas going around nowadays that it's probably like a jungle for a new Christian.

I agree that speaking of secular trust is dangerous.
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
It’s the same. But what I DO NOT believe is that we are pre made to believe

Thanks for being honest. Then my posts to you still apply. If God has already predestinated the saved and the unsaved then according to your belief if we are one of the unsaved we have no freewill to choose to be saved.

My questions for your consideration then would be (as asked earlier)....

Q1. If God has already elected those who are going to heaven, then why evangelize and why all the scriptures and the gospel commission to take the Gospel to the world?

According to this thinking (believing that everyone is predestined lost or saved) the saved are already saved and the lost are already lost so nothing will effect the outcome. This disagrees with all the scriptures posted to you earlier (see post # 285 and others). Foreknowledge does not imply predestination of the saved and unsaved *ROMANS 8:29-30. If God predestined everything, then there is no use in praying for your friends or family yet we are told to pray for others *JAMES 5:16; 1 TIMOTHY 2:1; JOB 42:10; MATTHEW 5:43-45; 1 TIMOTHY 2:1-3. In your view, God has already predestined salvation so no appealing to God will likely change his mind- it has already been predestined and cannot be changed.

Q2. If God predestined the saved and the unsaved, then according to your view, did God create sin?
Can't be unsaved without sin right?

Q3. If God predestined salvation, then why eternally condemn the non-elect? After all, it is not their fault according to your view because they have been predestined to be damned. If you believe this how can your God be a loving God?

To me God's Word does not teach any of this or can I find these teachings in God's Word.

This is only sent in love and as a help to the discussion brother.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on what you believe.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,012
25,179
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,562.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Q1. If God has already elected those who are going to heaven, then why evangelize and why all the scriptures and the gospel commission to take the Gospel to the world?
Faith comes by hearing. Justification is by faith, not election.
 
Upvote 0

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,012
25,179
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,562.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Q3. If God predestined salvation, then why eternally condemn the non-elect? After all, it is not their fault according to your view because they have been predestined to be damned. If you believe this how can your God be a loving God?
The non-elect are condemned because they’ve sinned against God, not because they aren’t elect.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
LGW wrote: Q1. If God has already elected those who are going to heaven, then why evangelize and why all the scriptures and the gospel commission to take the Gospel to the world?
Your response...
Faith comes by hearing. Justification is by faith, not election.

This answer does not make any sense brother if the unsaved are already predetermined to be lost. How does this answer the question asked above? As posted earlier according to this thinking (believing that everyone is predestined lost or saved) the saved are already saved and the lost are already lost so nothing will effect the outcome. This disagrees with all the scriptures posted to you earlier (see post # 285 and others). Foreknowledge does not imply predestination of the saved and unsaved *ROMANS 8:29-30. If God predestined everything, then there is no use in praying for your friends or family yet we are told to pray for others *JAMES 5:16; 1 TIMOTHY 2:1; JOB 42:10; MATTHEW 5:43-45; 1 TIMOTHY 2:1-3. In your view, God has already predestined salvation so no appealing to God will likely change his mind- it has already been predestined and cannot be changed.

Your response to Q1 does not answer the question.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
LoveGodsWord said: Q2. If God predestined the saved and the unsaved, then according to your view, did God create sin?
Your response...
Then how can God predestine the unsaved? You cannot have the unsaved without sin.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
LoveGodsWord said: Q3. If God predestined salvation, then why eternally condemn the non-elect? After all, it is not their fault according to your view because they have been predestined to be damned. If you believe this how can your God be a loving God?
Your response...
The non-elect are condemned because they’ve sinned against God, not because they aren’t elect.
But according to your view God predestined the saved and unsaved. Are you contradicting yourself here brother?
 
Upvote 0

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,012
25,179
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,562.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Your response...



This answer does not make any sense brother if the unsaved are already predetermined to be lost. How does this answer the question? As posted earlier
according to this thinking (believing that everyone is predestined lost or saved) the saved are already saved and the lost are already lost so nothing will effect the outcome. This disagrees with all the scriptures posted to you earlier (see post # 285 and others). Foreknowledge does not imply predestination of the saved and unsaved *ROMANS 8:29-30. If God predestined everything, then there is no use in praying for your friends or family yet we are told to pray for others *JAMES 5:16; 1 TIMOTHY 2:1; JOB 42:10; MATTHEW 5:43-45; 1 TIMOTHY 2:1-3. In your view, God has already predestined salvation so no appealing to God will likely change his mind- it has already been predestined and cannot be changed.

Your response to Q1 does not answer the question.
It did answer. Maybe you thought you had a “gotcha” question and I’m not playing along.

But if you need a little more info, it’s better to ask than make assumptions.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,012
25,179
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,562.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Your response...

Then how can God predestine the unsaved? You cannot have the unsaved without continuance in sin.
I don’t understand what you are asking. You believe we are all sinners, correct.
 
Upvote 0