LDS What would it take?

Christian Apologist

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 21, 2019
484
120
77
Vancouver Washington
Visit site
✟155,046.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Yet there are also findings just the opposite about drinking caffeine having positive affects on one's health. It does seem, from my own experience, that coffee is far more safer than drinking other caffeine alternatives, like Energy drinks.

It seems to me from experience these drinks in moderation pose no problem for one's health as a universal rule. Only when taken in excess and even then, four cups of coffee has never made me feel like how I used to feel when I drank energy drinks.

Would you argue the opposition to these things comes from health concerns only or is there some other concern about these drinks? The only problem is addiction, not the potential health effects, since almost anything we consume could be dangerous if taken to excess.

Coffee does have plenty of health benefits

Coffee.jpg
 
Upvote 0

Christian Apologist

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 21, 2019
484
120
77
Vancouver Washington
Visit site
✟155,046.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Back in Christ's time wine could either be grape juice or strong drink according to my Bible.

However, I don't believe that smoking or drinking will send a person to Hell

Could you give me book chapter and verse for that
 
Upvote 0

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Explain how obeying commandments is good news.
Also, who is it good news for?

-CryptoLutheran
Keeping the commandments is good news because it is the key to eternal life. By keeping the commandments we can know LOVE because the commandments are LOVE. That is why God gave us the commandments so we could learn to LOVE the way He does. The good news is for all of God's children.
 
Upvote 0

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Could you give me book chapter and verse for that
(New Testament | Matthew 9:17)

17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

(New Testament | Mark 2:22)

22 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles.

(New Testament | Luke 5:37 - 38)

37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.
 
Upvote 0

Christian Apologist

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 21, 2019
484
120
77
Vancouver Washington
Visit site
✟155,046.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
(New Testament | Matthew 9:17)

17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

(New Testament | Mark 2:22)

22 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles.

(New Testament | Luke 5:37 - 38)

37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.

What do these scriptures have to do with wine not having Alcohol in them ?

Scripture has much to say regarding the drinking of alcohol (Leviticus 10:9; Numbers 6:3; Deuteronomy 29:6; Judges 13:4, 7, 14; Proverbs 20:1; 31:4; Isaiah 5:11, 22; 24:9; 28:7; 29:9; 56:12). However, Scripture does not necessarily forbid a Christian from drinking beer, wine, or any other drink containing alcohol. In fact, some Scriptures discuss alcohol in positive terms. Ecclesiastes 9:7 instructs, “Drink your wine with a merry heart.” Psalm 104:14-15 states that God gives wine “that makes glad the heart of men.” Amos 9:14 discusses drinking wine from your own vineyard as a sign of God’s blessing. Isaiah 55:1 encourages, “Yes, come buy wine and milk…”
 
Upvote 0

Christian Apologist

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 21, 2019
484
120
77
Vancouver Washington
Visit site
✟155,046.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Romans 5.jpg
Keeping the commandments is good news because it is the key to eternal life. By keeping the commandments we can know LOVE because the commandments are LOVE. That is why God gave us the commandments so we could learn to LOVE the way He does. The good news is for all of God's children.[/QUO

Seems Mormons misinterpret the Bible profusely

Romans 5.jpg
 
Upvote 0

His student

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2019
1,235
555
78
Northwest
✟48,602.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Still not changed:
(New Testament | John 14:15)
15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.
(New Testament | Matthew 5:18)
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Now I remember. I've talked to you before.

I asked you what the simple gospel is in Mormonism.

Your answer was that it is to keep the commandments.

I told you that if this was representative of what is taught in Mormonism I would need no other statement to cause me to reject it and call it for the cult it is.

You just confirmed what I already knew.

The Mormon view of the gospel and that of born evangelical Christians are diametrically opposed to one another. In fact - they are polar opposites.

That's why I said that any honest intelligent seeker of truth needs only to compare the simple gospel believed before the Mormon scourge came on the scene in the 19 century to the gospel preached since that time by Mormons.

If they do so - they should logically reject Mormonism in a heartbeat.

P.S. - as a former agnostic bordering on atheism - it was difficult to finally realize that what God did in bringing a messiah as a slain lamb to the world through ancient Israel was in deed true.

Then to add the layers of works related tripe that the Mormon heretics pedaled some 1800 years later to those difficult to believe concepts seems to me to be the last thing in the world that God (or I) would do.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

His student

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2019
1,235
555
78
Northwest
✟48,602.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
People have expressed a desire to see us dead. This includes members of mainline Christian groups. What about that would make a person want to join one of those mainline groups?
Nothing - Christians shouldn't wish you dead. Christians should wish that God would draw you to Himself and make you alive through faith in the simple gospel where as now you are dead.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,342
26,787
Pacific Northwest
✟728,236.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
Keeping the commandments is good news because it is the key to eternal life. By keeping the commandments we can know LOVE because the commandments are LOVE. That is why God gave us the commandments so we could learn to LOVE the way He does. The good news is for all of God's children.

When Jesus met the woman caught in adultery, which was the good news Jesus spoke to her, was it a list of commandments, or was it His saying, "Neither do I condemn you"?

What was the good news Jesus spoke to the thief on the cross, that he should follow a list of commandments, or was it His saying, "I tell you truly, today you will be with Me in Paradise"?

You come upon a starving man, tell me, what is good news to him? A loaf of bread or a list of commandments?

You come upon a man suffering from ailment, tell me, what is good news to him? Medicine or a list of commandments?

You come upon a sinner suffering in their sins, tell me, what is good news to them? Forgiveness of their sins, or a list of commandments that they can't follow?

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

RichardY

Holotheist. Whig. Monarchical Modalism.
Apr 11, 2019
266
72
34
Spalding
✟16,984.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Is there anything decent in the Book of Mormon? Apart from the not smoking tobacco, which I figure some people knew anyway.

I had a browse through it briefly, but it read like some kind of really bad historical fantasy novel. The Old & New Testament are packed with pithy sayings.
 
Upvote 0

Peter1000

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2015
7,876
488
71
✟124,865.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
The Word of Wisdom tells us eating meat is detrimental to ones health, are you a vegan ? Or do you pick and choose what to follow ?
As you do often, you mislead people as to what we believe. Here is the statement on meat from section 89 of the D & C:
12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;
13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.

So where in there does it say eating meat is detrimental to ones health?????????????????????????????

Do you think we do not know these things or can look them up quickly. I know you are used to talking to people who listen to every word you say and take your word like the bible, but you are on a forum with Mormons that know how you operate and you do not get away with sayings that are misleading or are just plain false.
 
Upvote 0

Ironhold

Member
Feb 14, 2014
7,625
1,463
✟201,967.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Single
Nothing - Christians shouldn't wish you dead. Christians should wish that God would draw you to Himself and make you alive through faith in the simple gospel where as now you are dead.

That's the point.

Mainline Christianity has a cottage industry going devoted to producing materials talking about why such-and-such group is "evil", materials that are long on hate and short on facts.

These works are bought en mass by ministers and "counter-cult" leaders who don't bother to fact-check them before doling them out to their subordinates and congregants; they just tell them "Read this, memorize it, and march to victory!".

Under an environment like this, one can understand how hate can flourish to the point that folks are using violent means or threats thereof against us.

Meanwhile, those subordinates and congregants who merrily march along like NPCs in a video game can't handle the prospect that the material they were given is wrong, and so when exposed to the truth they all too often engage in cognitive dissonance, frequently to the point of mental breakdown. Yes, I've seen people suffer psychotic breaks in real time. I've caused a few myself, actually.

Given the way things are, what about any of this would make one want to leave whatever faith they're in to join the madness?
 
Upvote 0

His student

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2019
1,235
555
78
Northwest
✟48,602.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
That's the point.....Given the way things are, what about any of this would make one want to leave whatever faith they're in to join the madness?
There isn't much excuse for misrepresenting anyone - whether they be Mormons. Calvinists, Arminians or anyone else. I believe we should take people at their word when they tell us what they do and do not believe.

See my post number 69 to "He is the way".

He has stated exactly what the gospel is according to Mormonism. It's usually masked in various ways and is seldom so clearly stated. But there it is for all to see.

Mormonism presents the gospel as being "to keep the commandments of God" - and by that they usually mean more than just what is clearly found in the original scriptures. They include various Johnny Come Lately additions from various 19th century heretics.

Mormonism teaches a false gospel. In the eyes of those who speak so negatively about you - that is an accursed activity and it deserves to be called out as such.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Peter1000

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2015
7,876
488
71
✟124,865.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
When Jesus met the woman caught in adultery, which was the good news Jesus spoke to her, was it a list of commandments, or was it His saying, "Neither do I condemn you"?

What was the good news Jesus spoke to the thief on the cross, that he should follow a list of commandments, or was it His saying, "I tell you truly, today you will be with Me in Paradise"?

You come upon a starving man, tell me, what is good news to him? A loaf of bread or a list of commandments?

You come upon a man suffering from ailment, tell me, what is good news to him? Medicine or a list of commandments?

You come upon a sinner suffering in their sins, tell me, what is good news to them? Forgiveness of their sins, or a list of commandments that they can't follow?

-CryptoLutheran
Yes, each case is different as to what is good news to them, but in the case of the woman caught in adultery, Jesus did not just say "neither do I condemn you", he told her to go "and sin no more" which is other words for 'keep my commandments' from now on, and you will be OK.

If you love Jesus, you will keep his commandments. Of course you cannot keep all of them all of the time. That is why he teaches us to repent, and that his grace is sufficient. But if you do not repent, his grace is not going to be sufficient. If you think you can just go through life and do as you please, because 40 years ago you said you believed, and now Jesus has your back, but you don't have his, you will be sadly disappointed.

If the adulterous woman that Jesus saved from stoning continues in her adulterous ways she will not be saved. IOW once saved does not mean always saved.
 
Upvote 0

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
What do these scriptures have to do with wine not having Alcohol in them ?

Scripture has much to say regarding the drinking of alcohol (Leviticus 10:9; Numbers 6:3; Deuteronomy 29:6; Judges 13:4, 7, 14; Proverbs 20:1; 31:4; Isaiah 5:11, 22; 24:9; 28:7; 29:9; 56:12). However, Scripture does not necessarily forbid a Christian from drinking beer, wine, or any other drink containing alcohol. In fact, some Scriptures discuss alcohol in positive terms. Ecclesiastes 9:7 instructs, “Drink your wine with a merry heart.” Psalm 104:14-15 states that God gives wine “that makes glad the heart of men.” Amos 9:14 discusses drinking wine from your own vineyard as a sign of God’s blessing. Isaiah 55:1 encourages, “Yes, come buy wine and milk…”
New wine will not break the new bottles because it is not fermented. The old bottles will case the wine to ferment and break the bottles.
 
Upvote 0

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
You said "Seems like Mormons misinterpret the Bible profusely."
I don't know about Mormons whoever they are, but members of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints do understand the MAIN theme of the Bible, and that is to keep the commandments. I LOVE the commandments of LOVE and therefore I strive to keep them.
 
Upvote 0

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Now I remember. I've talked to you before.

I asked you what the simple gospel is in Mormonism.

Your answer was that it is to keep the commandments.

I told you that if this was representative of what is taught in Mormonism I would need no other statement to cause me to reject it and call it for the cult it is.

You just confirmed what I already knew.

The Mormon view of the gospel and that of born evangelical Christians are diametrically opposed to one another. In fact - they are polar opposites.

That's why I said that any honest intelligent seeker of truth needs only to compare the simple gospel believed before the Mormon scourge came on the scene in the 19 century to the gospel preached since that time by Mormons.

If they do so - they should logically reject Mormonism in a heartbeat.

P.S. - as a former agnostic bordering on atheism - it was difficult to finally realize that what God did in bringing a messiah as a slain lamb to the world through ancient Israel was in deed true.

Then to add the layers of works related tripe that the Mormon heretics pedaled some 1800 years later to those difficult to believe concepts seems to me to be the last thing in the world that God (or I) would do.
We LOVE Christ and show it by doing as He said:

(New Testament | John 14:15)

15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.

I will believe what Jesus Christ said. However, no one is going to force you to believe it. You can believe whatever you want to believe. If you want to know more about what Jesus said about the commandments read all of John 14.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
When Jesus met the woman caught in adultery, which was the good news Jesus spoke to her, was it a list of commandments, or was it His saying, "Neither do I condemn you"?

What was the good news Jesus spoke to the thief on the cross, that he should follow a list of commandments, or was it His saying, "I tell you truly, today you will be with Me in Paradise"?

You come upon a starving man, tell me, what is good news to him? A loaf of bread or a list of commandments?

You come upon a man suffering from ailment, tell me, what is good news to him? Medicine or a list of commandments?

You come upon a sinner suffering in their sins, tell me, what is good news to them? Forgiveness of their sins, or a list of commandments that they can't follow?

-CryptoLutheran
The good news in these cases is the second and great commandment:

(New Testament | Matthew 22:36 - 40)

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Except when He told the woman "Neither do I condemn thee" and after said:

(New Testament | John 8:10 - 11)

10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

So He told her to keep the commandments.
 
Upvote 0