Kushner's Middle East peace plan is due in a month

Ana the Ist said:

What land? Like condos in Boca Raton? What are you talking about?

Click to expand...

Please let it be conods in Boca Raton.

Markstrimaran said:

This story is so interesting, it has been a saga since 1949. With wars is 1967,1973, 2004. The tunnels under the border. Isis in S yria. Random missle barrages. The near destruction of Damascus. The Russian, Iran, Turkey alliance. It amazes me that a nation the size of a large Indian reservation has sustained itself in the midst of it's sworn enemies.

Click to expand...

Might have something to do with the most powerfull nation of the world propping it up.

Tanj said:

Please let it be conods in Boca Raton.

Click to expand...

I just....it's baffling to me. Let's say for the sake of argument that I agree that at the very least, some of Israeli settlements are illegal.

How is anyone going to know which one's?

For example....

Palestinian gets life sentence over land sale to Israelis

This happens more than some people want to admit. Palestinian landowner gets tired of it all, gets dual citizenship, sells his land to Israelis. He makes a tidy profit and leaves. Israel expands.

It's totally legal in Israel....totally illegal in Palestine. I get it's infuriating if you're a hardcore "death to the infidels" Palestinian....you certainly don't want your countrymen selling off your nation and moving.

The problem is ....it's either their land to own or it isn't. They either possess it or they don't. If they don't....who does?

Ana the Ist said:

I just....it's baffling to me. Let's say for the sake of argument that I agree that at the very least, some of Israeli settlements are illegal.

How is anyone going to know which one's?

For example....

Palestinian gets life sentence over land sale to Israelis

This happens more than some people want to admit. Palestinian landowner gets tired of it all, gets dual citizenship, sells his land to Israelis. He makes a tidy profit and leaves. Israel expands.

It's totally legal in Israel....totally illegal in Palestine. I get it's infuriating if you're a hardcore "death to the infidels" Palestinian....you certainly don't want your countrymen selling off your nation and moving.

The problem is ....it's either their land to own or it isn't. They either possess it or they don't. If they don't....who does?

Click to expand...

Land you own is and isn't your land at the same time. That's nothing new. If I own land, I can sell it to someone else, but I can't sell that land to an US citizen and it then becomes a US enclave in germany.

Nithavela said:

Might have something to do with the most powerfull nation of the world propping it up.

Click to expand...

Or the ability of their tank cannons to elevate -30 degrees down. To fire on the Egyptians in 1973.
We all sit and watch. Some day the Ezekiel prophecy will come to pass. How many Arab invasions does it take to conquer a land?
In 700 AD the Muslims took Constantinople.
and half of Europe.
This place was taken in world war 1,and World war 2. Most of the land was granted out. After war to displace the Ottoman empire.
Why dont the Muslim nations assimilate the 1949 War of Independence refugees?
Germany and Europe took the Syrian Civil war/ ISIS war. Refugee's with open arms and made them feel at home.

essentialsaltes said:

It's not that complicated. We're not talking about individual land sales. We're talking about Israel building entire communities in the occupied territories. "The international community considers the settlements in occupied territory to be illegal, and the United Nations has repeatedly upheld the view that Israel's construction of settlements constitutes a violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention."

Click to expand...

Who do we believe the United Nations formed in 1945. I believe GOD, When the walls of Jericho came tumbling down, solely from divine intervention.

GoldenBoy89 said:

To think in just one month there will finally be peace in the Middle East.

Click to expand...

Peace in our time.

It's a heart issue, the modern Palestinians could have integrated, just as we Americans have done with laws and courts. Verse blowing themselves up.
The whole thing is about Temple mount control. Which pivots on the day Christ was crucified . Then later sacked by the Roman's in 70 AD.
Interestingly the muslims were not around until 600 years later.
It is an issue that will testify to the truth of Jesus Christ, should one seek the historical record as seek the truth.

Nithavela said:

Land you own is and isn't your land at the same time.

Click to expand...

This answer does and doesn't make sense.

That's nothing new. If I own land, I can sell it to someone else, but I can't sell that land to an US citizen and it then becomes a US enclave in germany.

Click to expand...

This isn't the same thing though.

For years, for example, after we gave back reservations to native Americans....it was considered tribal land. Members of the tribe owned it, and though it wasn't a part of US land.....they could definitely sell it to US citizens. In many many cases....they did.

It wasn't until cases started popping with tribes complaining about their shrinking reserves or being fleeced of the actual value of the land that we basically took the land from them, and decided to hold it "in their name" in perpetuity.

That lasted pretty long....and now people complain that the natives should be able to own the land, and thereby profit from it. Many think part of the problem of poverty on reservations is tied to the lack of landownership being tied to the land.

essentialsaltes said:

It's not that complicated. We're not talking about individual land sales. We're talking about Israel building entire communities in the occupied territories. "The international community considers the settlements in occupied territory to be illegal, and the United Nations has repeatedly upheld the view that Israel's construction of settlements constitutes a violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention."

Click to expand...

Whoa....no offense....but who cares what the international community thinks?

I mean did the international community come together to save all those girls kidnapped by Boko Haram? Did it stop the massive looting and rape of Chechnya under Russian invasion? How about those two Americans basically being held hostage by the Chinese government because their father is a fugitive?

When the international community enforces law....then those laws matter. Until then, it's hot air.

Ana the Ist said:

I just....it's baffling to me. Let's say for the sake of argument that I agree that at the very least, some of Israeli settlements are illegal.

How is anyone going to know which one's?

For example....

Palestinian gets life sentence over land sale to Israelis

This happens more than some people want to admit. Palestinian landowner gets tired of it all, gets dual citizenship, sells his land to Israelis. He makes a tidy profit and leaves. Israel expands.

It's totally legal in Israel....totally illegal in Palestine. I get it's infuriating if you're a hardcore "death to the infidels" Palestinian....you certainly don't want your countrymen selling off your nation and moving.

The problem is ....it's either their land to own or it isn't. They either possess it or they don't. If they don't....who does?

Click to expand...

I know right? It's almost like this is a really hard problem with no simple or even not so simple resolution.

essentialsaltes said:

That's just what happened in some cases when Egypt and Israel made their peace treaty and Israel abandoned Sinai and evacuated the settlements built there, in some cases somewhat forcefully.

The Sinai withdrawal was phased over a number of years and the date of evacuation for Yamit was set for April 23, 1982. Residents were ordered beforehand to leave in a peaceful manner and most of the original settlers did in fact choose to move rather than clash with the Israel Defense Forces.

The Yamit evacuation, however, was met with resistance by right-wing Jews, mostly followers of Rabbi Meir Kahane, who threatened to fight back against the IDF and even to blow themselves up if soldiers entered their bunkers.

At 2 P.M. on April 23, the official evacuation began. Much of the resistance played out like a game of cat and mouse - soldiers climbed up barricaded houses; protesters threw down sand and burning tires. Soldiers sprayed white foam on the roofs; protesters moved into the attics. Finally, soldiers were lowered onto the roofs in cages and they were able to bring many resistors out of the houses. At some locations, the army drilled holes into buildings and sprayed those inside with high pressure hoses to force them to exit.

In response to the protestors suicide threat, Rabbi Kahane flew from the United States to Yamit and convinced them not to detonate their explosives.

Click to expand...

Lol you're talking about the Israeli people evacuating their own. They clearly have no intention nor motivation to do so now.

It's not happening. You can put money on it.

Tanj said:

I know right? It's almost like this is a really hard problem with no simple or even not so simple resolution.

Click to expand...

It's not....as far as I can tell, this is slowly being worked out on it's own.

It's not a pleasant aspect of reality....but all civilizations rise, fall, disappear, get integrated, assimilate, become annihilated, etc.

I can't think of a single one that simply formed and has existed forever since. China's pretty close....but it more closely resembles a modern western nation than it's imperialistic roots thanks to the twin pressures of capitalism and communism.

essentialsaltes said:

Well, what has he got to say about West Bank settlements vis-a-vis the Mideast peace plan?

Click to expand...

I think part of the problem you're not understanding is the 1967 borders were drawn up 50 years ago. A lot has happened since then and frankly, neither side seems to care much about them.

But don't take my word for it....take a look at what young Palestinians have to say...

How Palestinian youth would solve the conflict with Israel

There's a little bit of talk about a 1 state solution....which is the most optimistic. Israel will never agree to that now, they need not accept it....for any reason.

Most of the other young Palestinians interviewed say there can be no peace....no solution with Israel. One girl quite bluntly said that they should all leave and go back to Europe lol.

This is a people who refuse to accept defeat.

essentialsaltes said:

Everyone who is a signatory to the Geneva conventions.

Click to expand...

I hate to break it to you...but two of those examples are post Geneva conventions and I could give probably hundreds of examples since which were never addressed by the international community except to say "you shouldn't do that".

Realistically, I don't think there's a single war we've participated in that didn't break the conventions. It's post WW2 pacifistic idealism.