And Adam was not Deceived - 1 Timothy 2:14

Jair Crawford

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The entire second portion of 1st Timothy 2 is probably one of the most controversial passages of the entire New Testament, for many understandable reasons. But as I was reading it today, this particular verse stood out to me as... well, odd to say the least. Upon first glance, it seems to be theologically questionable.

The first question to pop to mind is, has Paul (or the pastoral author) not read the Genesis account thoroughly before writing this? Surely Adam -was- deceived, or else he would not have eaten the fruit from Eve, no? Note that the author does bring up order in the previous verse, but he only brings it up in context of the order of creation, and fails to acknowledge the order of the eating of the fruit (he also neglects to bring up how headship was not officially established until/as a result of the fall of man). As a result of all this, it seems as though the author is implying that “it’s all Eve’s fault” and is trying to absolve Adam, thus men, from blame. But why?

Can anyone share some insight into this?
 

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The entire second portion of 1st Timothy 2 is probably one of the most controversial passages of the entire New Testament, for many understandable reasons. But as I was reading it today, this particular verse stood out to me as... well, odd to say the least. Upon first glance, it seems to be theologically questionable.

The first question to pop to mind is, has Paul (or the pastoral author) not read the Genesis account thoroughly before writing this? Surely Adam -was- deceived, or else he would not have eaten the fruit from Eve, no? Note that the author does bring up order in the previous verse, but he only brings it up in context of the order of creation, and fails to acknowledge the order of the eating of the fruit (he also neglects to bring up how headship was not officially established until/as a result of the fall of man). As a result of all this, it seems as though the author is implying that “it’s all Eve’s fault” and is trying to absolve Adam, thus men, from blame. But why?

Can anyone share some insight into this?
Adam was not deceived by the serpent directly, Eve was. That is what I believe Paul was referring to. Females , as the weaker vessel ,fall prey to deception much more than men do, historically. What Adam did do was fall prey to Eve's sin and so the story goes, they both fell from grace.
Blessings
 
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Jair Crawford

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Adam was not deceived by the serpent directly, Eve was. That is what I believe Paul was referring to. Females , as the weaker vessel ,fall prey to deception much more than men do, historically. What Adam did do was fall prey to Eve's sin and so the story goes, they both fell from grace.
Blessings

I understand but when Adam and Eve start playing the blame game, they allude to the order of the deception/sin implying that, as Eve was deceived by the serpent, so too was Adam deceived by Eve. The verse in Timothy goes on to even highlight Eve’s transgression, but again, completely glosses over Adam.
 
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Messerve

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Well, I've always heard it taught that Adam sinned knowingly whereas Eve believed Satan's lie and was deceived. Eve wanted to be like God, so she fell for Satan's lie. Then she gave it to Adam, who had the advantage of observing that she hadn't died yet, and he ate. Adam was by her side the whole time, and it was to Adam that God gave the original instructions not to eat from the tree. I think he saw through the deception.

My question about this passage is how it supports Paul's overall instruction to Timothy... How would childbearing be necessary to save women - or is it saving more in the sense of restoring respect? Because of the authority given to men over women following the Fall, maybe their position already bestows them some respect that was lost. But in that day, women didn't hold such positions usually, so it was raising up godly children (specifically children who would lead the young Church) that gave them a similar honor in the absence of actual leadership.
 
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Messerve

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Adam was not deceived by the serpent directly, Eve was. That is what I believe Paul was referring to. Females , as the weaker vessel ,fall prey to deception much more than men do, historically. What Adam did do was fall prey to Eve's sin and so the story goes, they both fell from grace.
Blessings
I'm glad you're a woman saying this! I would never dare. ^_^
 
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Messerve

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I understand but when Adam and Eve start playing the blame game, they allude to the order of the deception/sin implying that, as Eve was deceived by the serpent, so too was Adam deceived by Eve. The verse in Timothy goes on to even highlight Eve’s transgression, but again, completely glosses over Adam.
Adam only says Eve gave him the fruit and he ate. He never says he was deceived. And, anyway, since they are all passing on blame, they could simply lie to make themselves appear innocent.

Basically, Adam's excuse is pretty weak. Even if Eve gave it to him, he didn't have to eat it. But it still turned the attention to Eve who had to answer for why she was eating the fruit in the first place...
 
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Jair Crawford

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Well, I've always heard it taught that Adam sinned knowingly whereas Eve believed Satan's lie and was deceived. Eve wanted to be like God, so she fell for Satan's lie. Then she gave it to Adam, who had the advantage of observing that she hadn't died yet, and he ate. Adam was by her side the whole time, and it was to Adam that God gave the original instructions not to eat from the tree. I think he saw through the deception.

My question about this passage is how it support Paul's overall instruction to Timothy. how would childbearing be necessary to save women - or is it saving more in the sense of restoring respect? Because of the authority given to men over women following the Fall, maybe their position already bestows them some respect that was lost. But in that day, women didn't hold such positions usually, so it was raising up godly children (specifically children who would lead the young Church) that gave them a similar honor in the absence of actual leadership.

Your first point is interesting and noteworthy. I’ve imagined this scenario as well, although I don’t know if we can be one hundred percent sure that Adam was there to witness it or not.

And that whole child-bearing thing in the next verse IS really bizarre. Note that the Greek word for “saved” is the exact same word used to speak of Salvation in the rest of the pastoral letters.
 
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Messerve

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Your first point is interesting and noteworthy. I’ve imagined this scenario as well, although I don’t know if we can be one hundred percent sure that Adam was there to witness it or not.

And that whole child-bearing thing in the next verse IS really bizarre. Note that the Greek word for “saved” is the exact same word used to speak of Salvation in the rest of the pastoral letters.
It actually does say "...and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate."
 
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Messerve

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As an odd side note, imagine what the world would be like if just Adam or just Eve had eaten? Pretty miserable for the gender living in sin, while the other is still in perfect harmony with God! ^_^ In an odd way, I'm glad they both ate.

I guess no children would have ever been born anyway...
 
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Jair Crawford

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It actually does say "...and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate."

Right. But was he with her the whole time, or only during the time that he took the fruit from her and ate? That is the question.
 
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Can anyone share some insight into this?
I think it is possible either that Adam may not have noticed what kind of fruit it was, or he simply did not understand what was happening when he should have. I don't know if you've ever had a moment like that to where you see this happening in front of you and you know it isn't right but you're like, screw it. Adam chose to be passive in the situation case & point, and he paid for it. Along with all humanity.
 
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Jair Crawford

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I think it is possible either that Adam may not have noticed what kind of fruit it was, or he simply did not understand what was happening when he should have. I don't know if you've ever had a moment like that to where you see this happening in front of you and you know it isn't right but you're like, screw it. Adam chose to be passive in the situation case & point, and he paid for it. Along with all humanity.

That’s an interesting interpretation I’ve not heard before. My theory is, he knew it was the fruit, but ate anyway because Eve didn’t die. And that convinced him incorrectly that there wasn’t anything wrong with it.
 
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That’s an interesting interpretation I’ve not heard before. My theory is, he knew it was the fruit, but ate anyway because Eve didn’t die. And that convinced him incorrectly that there wasn’t anything wrong with it.
Yeah, I've thought that before, and it is possible.
 
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As an odd side note, imagine what the world would be like if just Adam or just Eve had eaten? Pretty miserable for the gender living in sin, while the other is still in perfect harmony with God! ^_^ In an odd way, I'm glad they both ate.

I guess no children would have ever been born anyway...

Some seem to think Adam ate of the fruit because Eve ate and would die separated from each other forever.
They say it was Adams love for Eve that he ate and joined her so they could remain together.
 
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Some seem to think Adam ate of the fruit because Eve ate and would die separated from each other forever.
They say it was Adams love for Eve that he ate and joined her so they could remain together.
Still, poor excuse to sin.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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I'm glad you're a woman saying this! I would never dare. ^_^
Haa! I know! I had to revise it thinking I would make some women upset but no way of getting around it.
 
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Adam was not deceived by the serpent directly, Eve was. That is what I believe Paul was referring to. Females , as the weaker vessel ,fall prey to deception much more than men do, historically. What Adam did do was fall prey to Eve's sin and so the story goes, they both fell from grace.
Blessings
why do I feel like its the opposite these days Lol
 
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grafted branch

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I look at it this way, it says in Genesis 2:23-24 because the woman is taken out of the man that he shall leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife. Adam at this point has the propensity to cleave to his wife Eve. In Genesis 3:6 Eve eats the forbidden fruit and gave it to her husband. In the KJV there is a semicolon after this statement before Adam eats the fruit. This suggests that there was at least a pause before Adam eats the fruit. Because Adam wasn’t deceived he must have contemplated his choices of either not eating the fruit and remaining with God or choosing death and eating the fruit in order to cleave to his wife.

I think this is remarkably similar to what Christ does on the cross. Christ chose death in order to be with his bride, believers.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Your first point is interesting and noteworthy. I’ve imagined this scenario as well, although I don’t know if we can be one hundred percent sure that Adam was there to witness it or not.

And that whole child-bearing thing in the next verse IS really bizarre. Note that the Greek word for “saved” is the exact same word used to speak of Salvation in the rest of the pastoral letters.
If woman were not able to child-bear, there would never have been a Messiah to save them from their sins; thus, they were (and are) saved through child-bearing. (simple!)
 
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why do I feel like its the opposite these days Lol
Today, everything everyplace is full of danger, temptations, traps, and wickednesses beyond ever before.
Feelings, btw, are not reliable to trust nor to follow nor to go by.

Always trust the Father in heaven to accomplish what He says, from deliverance, to healing, to salvation, to protecting us from the evil one.
The heavenly Creator, Abba Father is Faithful and True, and always Keeps His Promises.
Men are not reliable. (notoriously!)
 
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