Jesus served time for you....I wouldn’t serve time for my children. So I cannot answer that.
You've just killed your own analogy.
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Jesus served time for you....I wouldn’t serve time for my children. So I cannot answer that.
You don't agree with God?We deserve His justice but not His Grace..
The choice is ours and God doesn't send us there, he is obliged by His word by our choice. To be in 'Hell' is to live where God doesn't. We choose if we want to spend eternity with him. or not.We don’t send ourselves to hell.
Yes, 'depart', he's not sending them, he is asking them to leave his presence (heaven) because that was their choice."Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. - Matthew 25:41
See above.But nobody sending themselves.
Then there is another way of looking at it.<snip>
Everyone agrees that there is election in the bible.
It's what KIND of election that differs.
You might believe that God elects WHO is saved.
Others believe that God elects HOW we are saved.
First of all, God FOREKNEW who would be saved. Foreknowing is not a causation.
Those whom He foreknew He predestined to become conformed to His Son. This is HOW they will be saved...NOT WHO. All we know about the WHO will be saved, is that God foreknew.
That’s your first error. Those whom God foreknows are predestined to be conformed. Those He foreknows and predestined He also calls. Notice not everyone is called. How can we be sure of that? Because in that passage, only those called are justified.
So you are, it appears, mistaking foreknowing people with foreknowing people’s actions.
I quoted a whole section from Romans 9.Some posts back I asked you for your thoughts on your above statement....saying that God is not obligated to put a plan of salvation into action.
Why would God NOT be obligated if HE is responsible for our sin? (since HE predestined everything).
Please respond.
If you are correct, why would there be any conditions to avoid hell? I mean, He made us that way, right?According to YOUR theology...
GOD MADE us sinful.
So why do you feel we deserve His wrath for doing what HE made us to do?
I understand that’s what happened. I’m saying that He was under no obligation to provide salvation.He is just and also he is irreproachable.
The scene in the garden was not just God and Adam and Eve. There was also also the serpent and the choice between Good and Evil and the Tree of Life.
God allowed the serpent in there to tempt them and he also gave a choice of choosing between the trees.
If these things were not put into place by God then there would have been no sin.
If you believe that God is Omniscience then you must believe he foreknew man would listen to the serpent over him. He put us into that position, thus why in the very place it happened, the garden, He announced his plan for redeeming fallen mankind.
I’m sure I’d be upset.OK, but if you did that great sacrifice, how would you feel about the rest of it?
You’ll have to explain how.Jesus served time for you....
You've just killed your own analogy.
Grace, by definition, is undeserved.You don't agree with God?
God showers His grace on everyone...
It rains on the just and the unjust...
So if we don't deserve God's grace...why does He shower us with it?
Please don't tell me grace is undeserved love....
I know God is a God of LOVE....unlike some that don't think so.
What I'm asking is:
IF we don't deserve grace...
WHY does He give it to us anyway?
Do they have an option then?Yes, 'depart', he's not sending them, he is asking them to leave his presence (heaven) because that was their choice.
And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. - Romans 8:30God surely knows the difference between the wheat (those who can be called) and the weeds (those who never belonged to him in the first place). He can call those who are his, but it is still in our freewill to accept that call or not. If he predestines them to conform then that means he has taken back our freewill.
I quoted a whole section from Romans 9.
Romans 9 starts out with Paul explaining why not all who claim to be Israelites are not. There’s nothing to suggest that he’s switching from individuals to the nation as a whole.Romans 9 binds to Exodus where Moses told the Almighty to cross his name off the book of life if the Almighty didn’t see the children of Israel through to the promises God gave them.
Paul starts Romans 9 out with this exact verbiage. Paul wishes he could be Anathema, that His Kinsmen would be Saved. Paul again reinforces this in Romans 10.
Paul posits Grace And Condemnation, while exalting Salvation through Faith in Christ.
At the end of the particular train of thought, Paul explodes into quotation of OT hymn that praises the immeasurable Grace Of God.
Locking Romans 9 into Cannon of Dort based verbiage is like taking James’ statement about “Faith without Works” and building an entire doctrine that disputes Salvation by Faith.
The context is only there when it is read in conjunction with extrabiblical exposition.
Romans 9, Romans 10 and Romans 11 centralized on Rebellious Israel that was cutoff through its rejection of its King, and final rebellion towards the Holy Spirit that occurs at the stoning of Steven.
Paul makes it clear, in all 3 verses that he still has hope for the dead to Christ Jews that are his Kinsmen and makes petition for their salvation, still.
Any other contextual understanding drawn from Romans 9, Romans 10 and Romans 11 is simply ignoring the forest for the trees.
Romans 9 starts out with Paul explaining why not all who claim to be Israelites are not. There’s nothing to suggest that he’s switching from individuals to the nation as a whole.
Taken from here
If that's true then that would mean he is not a loving God, nor one to be respected, he would now be reproachable as anyone would be that would set up someone to fall and then not help them out.I understand that’s what happened. I’m saying that He was under no obligation to provide salvation.
You don't agree with God?
God showers His grace on everyone...
It rains on the just and the unjust...
So if we don't deserve God's grace...why does He shower us with it?
Please don't tell me grace is undeserved love....
I know God is a God of LOVE....unlike some that don't think so.
What I'm asking is:
IF we don't deserve grace...
WHY does He give it to us anyway?
And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. - Romans 8:30
Who does this passage say are justified? The called or those who responded to the call?