Texas asserts sovereign immunity against Congress

redleghunter · May 18, 2019

Texas is asserting its sovereign immunity against Congress, telling Democrats on two congressional committees this week that the state has no obligation to comply with their investigative demands.

Attorney General Ken Paxton’s office says that as a state with sovereign powers under the Constitution, Texas can’t be treated like a federal agency or Cabinet secretary who can be compelled to comply.

“Texas does not draw its authority from the United States or the United States Constitution, but from its status as a dual sovereign within the union,” Jeffrey C. Mateer, first assistant attorney general, wrote in a letter Monday to the House Oversight and Reform Committee.

Mr. Mateer fired off a similar letter Wednesday to the House Ways and Means Committee rebuffing its attempts, saying the state wouldn’t stand to be treated like a “subdivision of the federal government or a private citizen.”

“Granting Congress the power to exercise ‘oversight’ over the constitutional officers of a state engaged in the lawful exercise of that state’s core authority would undermine the fabric of our system of dual sovereignty,” Mr. Mateer wrote.

More at link: Texas asserts sovereign immunity against Congress

inquiring mind · May 18, 2019

I hope the left doesn't cause states to start seceding again.

Gigimo · May 19, 2019

redleghunter said:
Texas is asserting its sovereign immunity against Congress, telling Democrats on two congressional committees this week that the state has no obligation to comply with their investigative demands.

Attorney General Ken Paxton’s office says that as a state with sovereign powers under the Constitution, Texas can’t be treated like a federal agency or Cabinet secretary who can be compelled to comply.

“Texas does not draw its authority from the United States or the United States Constitution, but from its status as a dual sovereign within the union,” Jeffrey C. Mateer, first assistant attorney general, wrote in a letter Monday to the House Oversight and Reform Committee.

Mr. Mateer fired off a similar letter Wednesday to the House Ways and Means Committee rebuffing its attempts, saying the state wouldn’t stand to be treated like a “subdivision of the federal government or a private citizen.”

“Granting Congress the power to exercise ‘oversight’ over the constitutional officers of a state engaged in the lawful exercise of that state’s core authority would undermine the fabric of our system of dual sovereignty,” Mr. Mateer wrote.

More at link: Texas asserts sovereign immunity against Congress

If this ends up going to court the outcome will depend on what type of judge hears the case, whether it be a judicial activist or one exhibiting judicial restraint.

Arcangl86 · May 19, 2019

Gigimo said:
If this ends up going to court the outcome will depend on what type of judge hears the case, whether it be a judicial activist or one exhibiting judicial restraint.

Considering it'll be heard in a state where even most federal judges are conservative, it'll probably be heard by a judicial activist.

paul1149 · May 19, 2019

It seems to me the Texans are right:

Texas is objecting to Democrats’ requests for documents probing the state’s efforts to clean up its voter rolls, and documents detailing the state’s efforts to protect faith-based adoption and foster care providers against an Obama-era rule about working with same-sex couples.

Overseeing the states, and in this case the voting apparatus, is the role of the Executive Branch. If Congress doesn't like the way that's being done, they have the role of oversight of that branch, but not directly of the states.

Arcangl86 · May 19, 2019

paul1149 said:
It seems to me the Texans are right:

Texas is objecting to Democrats’ requests for documents probing the state’s efforts to clean up its voter rolls, and documents detailing the state’s efforts to protect faith-based adoption and foster care providers against an Obama-era rule about working with same-sex couples.

Overseeing the states, and in this case the voting apparatus, is the role of the Executive Branch. If Congress doesn't like the way that's being done, they have the role of oversight of that branch, but not directly of the states.

They can't direct states to run federal programs, but they can pass legislation to make certain actions illegal, and that to me seems to be the goal here. They are requesting these documents to see if there is a need for more legislation.

Albion · May 19, 2019

If nothing can be done to another state which declares itself a “sanctuary“ state and which confiscates funds appropriated by the feds for a specific building project even though the state abandons the project after receiving the funding...

...to think now that Texas is doing something that's unheard of is kind of a joke, isn't it?

Gigimo · May 19, 2019

Arcangl86 said:
Considering it'll be heard in a state where even most federal judges are conservative, it'll probably be heard by a judicial activist.

usexpat97 · May 19, 2019

More marginalizing of Congress. Now if states will stand up to the EXECUTIVE branch, then maybe something of a democracy can be salvaged out of the U.S. yet.

Archivist · May 19, 2019

Texas was once an independent nation as were several other states (Vermont, Hawaii, Louisiana [West Florida], California). I wonder if they shouldn’t have certain rights not enjoyed by other states as a result of their previous independent status.

redleghunter · May 19, 2019

usexpat97 said:
More marginalizing of Congress. Now if states will stand up to the EXECUTIVE branch, then maybe something of a democracy can be salvaged out of the U.S. yet.

Texas is unique in how it came into the Union.

Archivist · May 19, 2019

redleghunter said:
Texas is unique in how it came into the Union.

No, Texas, Vermont and Hawaii. Vermont and Hawaii were actually independent for longer than Texas. West Florida and California both claimed independent status, but only briefly.

tulc · May 19, 2019

SWEET! It's been a while since Texas has pretended it's "not going to do what Washington wants!!" next comes the "we're going to secede!" blustering. It's actually kind of adorable.

tulc(...and then they do what they're told) :wave:

jacks · May 19, 2019

I don't think Texas is talking about seceding from the union. That is California. YES California.

Chesterton · May 19, 2019

Archivist said:
No, Texas, Vermont and Hawaii. Vermont and Hawaii were actually independent for longer than Texas. West Florida and California both claimed independent status, but only briefly.

Being "recognized" is important, though. Hawaii and Texas were recognized. I can claim my house and family are a sovereign nation, but a mere claim doesn't really get the job done.

tulc · May 19, 2019

jacks said:
I don't think Texas is talking about seceding from the union. That is California. YES California.

Not yet, that's the next part of the "DON'T MESS WITH TEXAS!!" play they pull every couple of years.

tulc(it gets funnier every time they do it)

Archivist · May 20, 2019

Chesterton said:
Being "recognized" is important, though. Hawaii and Texas were recognized. I can claim my house and family are a sovereign nation, but a mere claim doesn't really get the job done.

That was the reason I gave special note to those three. Texas and Hawaii, of course, had diplomatic relations with many nations including the US. Vermont was never recognized by the US, but did engage in diplomatic negotiations with the UK. BWT, Vermont was admitted to the union with no conditions attached, and its state constitution is the same as its constitution as an independent republic, with just a few amendments added since then.

The Barbarian · May 23, 2019

Archivist said:
Texas was once an independent nation as were several other states (Vermont, Hawaii, Louisiana [West Florida], California). I wonder if they shouldn’t have certain rights not enjoyed by other states as a result of their previous independent status.

They do. But I don't think this one will work for them.

hedrick · May 24, 2019

Congress has in the past created laws on subjects such as voter registration. Any area where it can legislate it clearly needs to be able to investigate, both to see if laws are needed and to see whether existing ones are working.

Texas asserts sovereign immunity against Congress

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