Convince me of Annihilationism

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Also, in the new heavens new earth, all those living there will not have the opportunity to be exiled or rejected from God's kingdom as they will be secured forever. I think that could suggest that there will be no places like hell or the LOF at all. If one could get exiled, post Rev 22, then surely it would have been mentioned somewhere.
 
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Verse that comes to mind is "it is appointed for men to die once, afterwards comes the judgement" Hebrews 9:27

I think that would suggest soul sleep is not partial.

I am 100% aware of this verse. We have to be careful not to make an entire belief out of one or two verses. It can also be equally true that the Judgment takes place after they die with a long period of time passing (Whether they are awake or asleep). In fact, the rich-man in the story of Lazarus and the Rich-man does not say anything about how the rich-man was judged. The rich-man had no knowledge of certain things. Surely at the judgment his life would have been revealed to the Lord, and He would have been judged and thrown into the Lake of Fire. But this has not happened yet for him.
 
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Finally, I guess I just doubt why such a place would need to exist at all after God has recreated His perfected Eden. Why bother immortalizing all that sin and evil by keeping it consciously existant forever? Wouldn't that marr the new creation just by existing in some sense, alongside of it? Is it not righteous judgement that it not exist any longer at all?
 
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Judgment takes place after they die with a long period of time passing (Whether they are awake or asleep).

But then that would be the second ressurection and you'd also kinda be suggesting that resurrections could occur multiple times during soul sleep. I'd probably not agree there.
 
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Lazarus and the Rich-man does not say anything about how the rich-man was judged. The rich-man had no knowledge of certain things. Surely at the judgment his life would have been revealed to the Lord, and He would have been judged and thrown into the Lake of Fire. But this has not happened yet for him.

He was also not on earth again though, but in some semi conscious netherworld akin to Abraham s bosom.
 
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He was also not on earth again though, but in some semi conscious netherworld akin to Abraham s bosom.

I believe it was hell (Which is in the heart of the Earth). I just do not think he was tortured and screaming by any real Earthly world flames, though. The rich-man was either tortured by the heat of the flame nearby him, or he was tormented by a kind of flame that does not cause intense pain like real Earthly fire would do.
 
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But then that would be the second ressurection and you'd also kinda be suggesting that resurrections could occur multiple times during soul sleep. I'd probably not agree there.

I believe the Bible talks about two resurrections. The resurrection of life, and the resurrection of the damned. The 1st resurrection for believers in Christ can be broken up into:

(a) A Spiritual Resurrection (in two phases) (A Pre-Trib Rapture, and a Mid-Trib Rapture).
(b) A Physical Resurrection (in two phases) (A Flesh and Blood Resurrection before the Millennium, and a Flesh and Blood Resurrection after the Millennium).

A partial soul sleep (the wicked or the saints sleeping at certain points in time would not conflict with these resurrections).

In the Bible's description of the 2nd resurrection, the wicked will only have a physical flesh and blood body resurrection at the Judgment (after the Millennium).
 
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Finally, I guess I just doubt why such a place would need to exist at all after God has recreated His perfected Eden. Why bother immortalizing all that sin and evil by keeping it consciously existant forever? Wouldn't that marr the new creation just by existing in some sense, alongside of it? Is it not righteous judgement that it not exist any longer at all?

I agree. It makes no sense to keep hell hanging around for all eternity. God's intention was always to have a good creation. For God is good. Eternal Conscious Torment is overkill and it actually places into question the good character of the Lord our God by the fact that He is not into fair justice.
 
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(b) A Physical Resurrection (in two phases) (A Flesh and Blood Resurrection before the Millennium, and a Flesh and Blood Resurrection after the Millennium).

A partial soul sleep (the wicked or the saints sleeping at certain points in time would not conflict with these resurrections).

Would this not technically be 3 ressurections then? Wicked person A dies 1000 years ago, goes to soul sleep, is resurrected before millennium, dies before or during millennium, is resurrected to face GWTJ. They technically live 3 lives. That's kinda reincarnation isnt it?
 
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Would this not technically be 3 ressurections then? Wicked person A dies 1000 years ago, goes to soul sleep, is resurrected before millennium, dies before or during millennium, is resurrected to face GWTJ.

I was referring to believers and not the wicked.
Note: I re-edited my previous post to include the resurrection of the wicked now.

Anyways, the wicked will only have one flesh and blood bodily resurrection (Which will be after the Millennium). This means they can go through long periods of sleep in hell, and at other times, they can be awakened to realize the error of their ways like in the story of Lazarus and the Rich-man). The resurrection of the wicked is the 2nd resurrection.

As for three resurrections: Well, Revelation is referring to just the bodily flesh and blood resurrections. This is not inconsistent of Scripture to speak in this way. Revelation is tying up all the loose ends. It is a book of endings. The spiritual resurrections are temporary, while the flesh and blood resurrections are permanent and will determine the final fate of men.
 
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@friend of

Here is a quick breakdown to help you to see where I am coming from:

Spiritual Resurrection for Believers:

Pre-Trib, and
Mid Trib.

The mention of the 2 Resurrections in Revelation:

1st Resurrection (the Resurrection of Life).
Phase 1 - Bodily Resurrection of Believers Before Millennium (Tribulation saints and the certain patriachs who were a part of the Land Promise).
Phase 2 - Bodily Resurrection of Believers After Millennium (Pre-Trib Rapture believers).
As Scripture says, he that is last is first, and he that is first is last.
While there is a main spiritual meaning to this part in Scripture, many times God's Word has double meanings. I see one double meaning on this part of Scripture as saying that those believers who are last (who lived during the Tribulation) will be first to go through the Millennium. Those who are first (believers before the Tribulation) will be resurrected last after the Millennium is over.

2nd Resurrection (of the Wicked).
This takes place after the Millennium for the Judgment.
The Judgment takes place on the New Earth because Jesus said to the Jews that they will see Abraham, and the others in the kingdom (i.e. New Jerusalem) and they themselves will be thrust out.

Note:

Why do believers get to have a spiritual resurrection? Because they are born again (unlike the unbeliever).
 
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You believe then that the bosom of Abraham is real? If it is not allegory, then the bosom must be real also.

I see this as nitpicking. The Bible uses both metaphors and things in our physical universe to describe real places. So it is not a contradiction.

You said:
And then you believe that the lost are in communication with the saved? Which goes against what God said to stay away from mediums and such.

This applies to those who are alive and not of those who are already dead and are living in the same dimension of the realm of the dead.

You said:
The meaning of this, Jesus explained:

Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Though--even if--one rose from the dead---not that they do.

It's a real story of the afterlife to illustrate a point for us who live in the real world. It is not a fictional bed time story.
 
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Also, many scriptures liken the wicked to stubble and ashes before God. Both of those like things are incapable of sustaining flames. You can't light ashes on fire, for example.

Yes, you can. You can light ashes on fire if there is some kind of fuel added to it like say oil, etc.
 
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I see this as nitpicking. The Bible uses both metaphors and things in our physical universe to describe real places. So it is not a contradiction.



This applies to those who are alive and not of those who are already dead and are living in the same dimension of the realm of the dead.



It's a real story of the afterlife to illustrate a point for us who live in the real world. It is not a fictional bed time story.


It's not an explanation of the state of the dead---Jesus said what the story meant. I'll take what He has to say about it.
The dead know not anything. Doesn't say a thing about---only in this world, they know everything on the other realm.

Ecc_9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Doesn't say they immediately go to their reward. Doesn't say a thing about there being any immediate afterlife.
As for nitpicking---you bet---if you want to know a fake from the real, you study the real with a magnifying glass, then the fake is much easier to spot.
 
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As Scripture says, he that is last is first, and he that is first is last.
While there is a main spiritual meaning to this part in Scripture, many times God's Word has double meanings. I see one double meaning on this part of Scripture as saying that those believers who are last (who lived during the Tribulation) will be first to go through the Millennium. Those who are first (believers before the Tribulation) will be resurrected last after the Millennium is over.

Would both ressurections (of believers) not happen simultaneously according to 1 Thessalonians 4:15?
 
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Those who are first (believers before the Tribulation) will be resurrected last after the Millennium is over

I think Revelation 20:4-6 is suggesting that ALL the righteous will come alive and be present during the Millenial Kingdom, not that some righteous will come alive after the MK.
 
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Would both ressurections (of believers) not happen simultaneously according to 1 Thessalonians 4:15?

No. 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18 is talking about the Pre-Trib Rapture. It is a spiritual resurrection. For with the exception of Jesus, flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God (heaven).
 
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I think Revelation 20:4-6 is suggesting that ALL the righteous will come alive and be present during the Millenial Kingdom, not that some righteous will come alive after the MK.

It only says those who were beheaded for Christ will live and reign with him a thousand years. Those who were beheaded for Christ need to be tested again because they missed out on the big test, which is the “blessed hope.” (The Pre-Trib Rapture). The rest of the dead (those who were not beheaded during the Tribulation) will live again after the thousand years is finished.

Also, on the New Earth (after the Millennium), New Jerusalem comes down from out of heaven like a bride adorned for her husband. New Jerusalem is more than just an empty city. New Jerusalem are a special kind of people and they will be adorned like a bride for her husband (Jesus).

“And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.” (Revelation 21:2).
 
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It's not an explanation of the state of the dead---Jesus said what the story meant. I'll take what He has to say about it.
The dead know not anything. Doesn't say a thing about---only in this world, they know everything on the other realm.

Ecc_9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Doesn't say they immediately go to their reward. Doesn't say a thing about there being any immediate afterlife.
As for nitpicking---you bet---if you want to know a fake from the real, you study the real with a magnifying glass, then the fake is much easier to spot.

I believe you are misapplying Scripture here but I guess we will all find out for sure when our appointed day comes. Currently, I just strive to read the Bible and believe it.
 
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