Amillenialism and the nation of Israel

jgr

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Damascus... Saul... Enemy of the Gospel Jew

Hmmmmmmmm

Physical Revelation

Scribes and Pharisees...Enemies of the Gospel...Jews

Hmmmmmmmm

Christ Himself

Matthew 23
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

One critical difference.

Paul responded in faith and obedience to his revelation.
The scribes and Pharisees did not so respond to theirs.
 
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Grip Docility

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Scribes and Pharisees...Enemies of the Gospel...Jews

Hmmmmmmmm

Christ Himself

Matthew 23
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

One critical difference.

Paul responded in faith and obedience to his revelation.
The scribes and Pharisees did not so respond to theirs.

Aha... so you admit Paul and those scribes and Pharisees had unusually strong revelation that they either accepted or rejected?
 
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Grip Docility

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Certainly.

Then, though we have two different Eschatological premises, I will find peace with you here.

The entire premise of what would be my Theological Eschatological Thesis, would most definitely centralize on this one point you and I agree on.

I find this to be a sincerely awesome thing, that though we swap views and support our views with study... we have discussed this to an interesting central point, where we agree.
 
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mkgal1

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Wow that's weird. I've never heard of that. Hmm.
About the DNA of Abraham being in everyone:

linked article said:
Turning to Hebrews 6.13-14, we see that God had made a promise to Abraham and then he changed the promise into an oath:

For when God made a promise to Abraham, since he had no one greater by whom to swear, he swore by Himself, saying, “Surely I will bless you and multiply you.”

In many places in scripture, we find “oath” and “covenant” used almost interchangeably (e.g., Ezekiel 16.60f). When God swears an oath to Abraham, he makes a covenant. In Genesis 22.18, right after Abraham went to Moriah to sacrifice his firstborn through Sarah, God prevented it and then swore an oath saying, “Surely all the nations of the earth will be blessed through your seed.”

The New Testament begins, “This is Jesus Christ, the seed of the son of Abraham, the Son of David.” Jesus Christ is the one through whom God fulfills the oath he swore to Abraham. Where did he swear it? On Moriah, the hill where the temple was later built and where Christ, the New Temple was later destroyed and rebuilt three days afterwards.- https://chnetwork.org/2010/03/16/the-meal-of-melchizedek/
 
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mister rogers

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I think it's important to re-emphasize at this point that I believe no matter one's view on current national Israel, whether it's a fulfilled (or unfolding) prophecy or not, only faith in Christ will save any individual.
 
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jgr

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I think it's important to re-emphasize at this point that I believe no matter one's view on current national Israel, whether it's a fulfilled (or unfolding) prophecy or not, only faith in Christ will save any individual.

Yes, and the key is "individual". The dispensational expectation of "national" salvation is an unscriptural chimera.
 
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Grip Docility

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Yes, and the key is "individual". The dispensational expectation of "national" salvation is an unscriptural chimera.

And yet, Romans 9 starts out referring to National Israel of Genetic origin, then follows through to the end of Romans 11.

What can be done?

:sunglasses:
 
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mkgal1

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Yet Romans 9:1-6 and all the way through to Romans 11:11-36 specifically states otherwise.

Romans 10 even opens as Romans 9 does with Salvational desire towards Genetic Jew’s that are deceived.

And yet, Romans 9 starts out referring to National Israel of Genetic origin, then follows through to the end of Romans 11.

What can be done?

:sunglasses:
There certainly was a group (or "nation", if you prefer) called "Israelites" AT THAT TIME that plays a role in biblical prophecy. That group wasn't defined as a pure group based on DNA. It's been mentioned before - that going all the way back to Genesis 17:9-14 - one can see that there were "foreigners" brought into the mix (Rahab, the Canaanite; and Ruth, the Moabite widow that married Boaz were both in Jesus' family tree). It's that specific group that has a significance (and, being that we can't even define, properly, another group like that one....ISTM that the prophecies have been fulfilled that were written about pertaining to this group).

One of the greatest significance is this: Their promised Messiah - out of the Line of Judah - was born. King AND High Priest (which, under the Law of Moses, that could never be the same person). Kings were born of the line of Judah (as Jesus was, check) but the only other High Priest that was NOT born of the line of Levi was Melchizedek (and Jesus was of the order of Melchizedek):

Zechariah 6:11 ~ “Then take silver and gold, and make crowns, and set them upon the head of Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest; (12) And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:”​


linked article said:
Only God’s servant, the BRANCH, can sit on the throne in the temple as both King and High Priest. Under the law of Moses the king and high priest could never be united under one person. The kings were from the tribe of Judah and the line of David while the high priests were from the tribe of Levi and the line of Aaron. The two separate lines are shown in the scriptures which follow:

“For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel; Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.”Jeremiah 33:17,18

The penalty was death for anyone but the high priest to enter into the most holy place of the temple and minister. It was impossible for any king of Israel to enter into the holy place and minister as a priest. In the entire course of the history of the kings of Israel and Judah in the Bible, there is not one report of the king entering into the temple and functioning as a high priest. Neither king David nor Solomon ever went into the most holy place of the temple. For anyone other than the descendants of Aaron entering, it meant certain death. The scriptures to show that entering into the most holy place outside of God’s plan meant death follow:

Numbers 4:15 “And when Aaron and his sons have made an end of covering the sanctuary, and all the vessels of the sanctuary, as the camp is to set forward; after that, the sons of Kohath shall come to bear it: but they shall not touch any holy thing, lest they die...(19) “But thus do unto them, that they may live, and not die, when they approach unto the most holy things: Aaron and his sons shall go in, and appoint them every one to his service and to his burden: (20) But they shall not go in to see when the holy things are covered, lest they die.”

Thus, under the law, it was impossible for one person to be both the king of Israel and the high priest who could enter in the holy of holies in the temple. King Messiah’s throne will be in the holy place of the temple. For King Messiah to sit on the throne in the holy of holies, He also has to be a priest. He cannot be just a priest, but He has to be a high priest to be in the most holy place. This shows that God’s servant, the BRANCH, is going to sit on His throne in the temple not under the law of Moses, but He will be King and Priest under the New Covenant.~ Messiah as Both King and Priest Will the Messiah | Believersweb.org

Hebrews 5:5-6 ~ So also Christ did not take upon Himself the glory of becoming a high priest, but He was called by the One who said to Him: “You are My Son; today I have become Your Father.And in another passage God says: “You are a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek.”​

lineage-tree.jpg
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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One of the greatest significance is this: Their promised Messiah - out of the Line of Judah - was born. King AND High Priest (which, under the Law of Moses, that could never be the same person). Kings were born of the line of Judah (as Jesus was, check) but the only other High Priest that was NOT born of the line of Levi was Melchizedek (and Jesus was of the order of Melchizedek):

Zechariah 6:11 ~ “Then take silver and gold, and make crowns, and set them upon the head of Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest; (12) And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:”​
Great post.
Melchizedek is a whole study in itself......fascinating person [mentioned only in Hebrews of the NT]

Kingdom Bible Studies Royal Priesthood #1
A KINGDOM OF PRIESTS

And just what is God's purpose? He declares, "Ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto Me above all people: for all the earth is Mine: and ye shall be unto Me A KINGDOM OF PRIESTS." Since kingship was virtually the only type of government or state known in the ancient world, "kingdom" could well be translated today as a "government" or "state." A GOVERNMENT OF PRIESTS! A PRIESTLY STATE! A HOLY NATION OF PRIESTS! God offered to Israel this glory of being a "kingdom of priests." ALL the tribes were to be priests. Because of their failure to enter the land at Kadesh-barnea and because they made and worshipped a golden calf while Moses was on the mountain receiving God's law, only one tribe was chosen to be a priestly tribe and that not on behalf of the world, but on behalf of the unbelieving, rebellious people of Israel! God's purpose remains, however, to have an entire nation of priests in the fullness of what priesthood means. Israel collectively was to be a royal and priestly race, a dynasty of kings and priests, each member uniting in himself the attributes of king and priest. Every man a king! Every man a priest! A kingdom of priests!
===========================================
Kindgdom Bible Studies Royal Priesthood Part 17
Melchizedek Connection, Royal Priesthood


Genesis 14:18 And Malkiy-Tsedeq, king of Shalem brought forth bread and wine and He a Priest of 'El-Most-High/'Elyown. 19 And He blessing him and is saying, "being blessed Abram of 'El-most-high/'Elyown possessor of heavens and land 20 And being blessed 'El-most-high/'elyown, who awarded thy foes in thy hand". And he is giving to him a tenth of all.

Hebrews 7:
1 For this the Malkiy-Tsedeq/melcisedek <3198>, King of Salem, Priest of the GOD of the most-high, the together-joining Abraham turning-back from the smiting of the kings, and did bless him.
12 For being changed/translated the Priesthood, out of necessity also, of Law a change is becoming.

YLT)
Rev 1:6
and did make us kings and priests to his God and Father, to him is the glory and the power to the ages of the ages! Amen.
Rev 5:10
and didst make us to our God kings and priests, and we shall reign upon the earth.'
=============================================
One of the most intriguing descriptions of the unique character of the High Priesthood of Jesus is found in Heb. 7:17 wherein it is stated, "Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek." This one grand statement shows that Jesus is not like any of the other priests who the people of Israel knew so much about. The entire seventh chapter of Hebrews is about THE MELCHIZEDEK CONNECTION, that is, it is about the way Jesus Christ, and thus, His body, the Royal Priesthood, is related to a strange man named Melchizedek. And the connection between Jesus Christ and Melchizedek is worth exploring. Let's take a look at the Melchizedek Connection.

The whole place Melchizedek occupies in sacred history is one of the most remarkable proofs of the inspiration and the unity of Scripture, as written under the direct supernatural guidance of the Holy Spirit. In the Book of Genesis all we know of him is told in three short, very simple verses. A thousand years later we find a Psalm with just one single verse, in which God Himself is introduced, swearing to His Son that He is to be a High Priest after the Order of Melchizedek. Another thousand years pass, and that single verse becomes the seed of the wondrous exposition, in the Epistle to the Hebrews, of the whole work of redemption in Christ Jesus. All its most remarkable characteristics are found enveloped in this wondrous type. The more we study it the more we exclaim: THIS IS THE LORD'S DOING; IT IS MARVELOUS IN OUR EYES.

In Genesis, chapter fourteen, we have one of the most intriguing stories in the Bible, that of Abram's encounter with Melchizedek, king of Salem, and "the priest of the Most High God." In the Genesis story Melchizedek is a strange and mysterious figure. He flashes across the scene like a meteor. There is no heralding of his appearance, nor any mention of its results. He arrives out of the blue; there is no account of his family; there is nothing about his birth, his descent, his life, his work, or his death. He simply arrives. We learn only that he was king of Salem and priest of the Most High God. During the time of Abraham there were no large nations. Instead, there were small cities where families lived or around which a tribe of nomadic people settled.

The population of these cities was probably not more than a few hundred - at most a few thousand. Each city was presided over by a king. Often, these city-states were at war with one another. Sometimes cities would form alliances with other cities and form large armies that would then make war upon yet another city or alliance of cities. Such became the case in the lower Jordan where Lot, Abram's nephew, and his family settled. An alliance of Mesopotamian cities drove Lot out of the Canaanite city of Sodom where he lived and took him captive..........................
 
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mkgal1

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The whole place Melchizedek occupies in sacred history is one of the most remarkable proofs of the inspiration and the unity of Scripture, as written under the direct supernatural guidance of the Holy Spirit. In the Book of Genesis all we know of him is told in three short, very simple verses. A thousand years later we find a Psalm with just one single verse, in which God Himself is introduced, swearing to His Son that He is to be a High Priest after the Order of Melchizedek. Another thousand years pass, and that single verse becomes the seed of the wondrous exposition, in the Epistle to the Hebrews, of the whole work of redemption in Christ Jesus. All its most remarkable characteristics are found enveloped in this wondrous type. The more we study it the more we exclaim: THIS IS THE LORD'S DOING; IT IS MARVELOUS IN OUR EYES.
Absolutely. It's so amazing to see His work - and the intricate details that fit together. When a person looks elsewhere (like to further political fulfillment of prophecies) I believe all this gets lost and overlooked.
 
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Adamina

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mister rogers said:
I have recently taken the more amillenial view (I prefer the term postmillenial, however that has a different meaning to many these days). But I still have difficulty believing the return of the Jews to their historic land this past century has no prophetic significance. Thoughts?
I too have a difficult time believing that has any biblical significance.
People hold the Jewish nation as significant just like you mention. One reason for this, even if they know it or not, is that they think the Jewish nation never received its promised kingdom. However, we know thats not true because the book of Joshua tells us they received ALL their land promise.

People also get confused I suppose because they think a literal Jewish nation is mentioned in the NT. It's not. It is a "spiritual" one. The church IS the kingdom that Jesus was putting in place Matthew 16:18-19 (church and kingdom are used interchangeably). "There is neither Jew nor Greek" is even more support to the "spiritual" kingdom of Israel and not a physical.

We could go all night into the book of Revelation. People want to make literal what shouldnt be literal. The book is heavily riddled with symbolic talk, almost all of it complete except of course Christs return in the clouds to take everyone and the world and heavens burning with fervent heat.
Good point concerning the book of Joshua [which I believe is another name for Jesus?]

Rapture Refuted! Israel's 1948 nationhood does not fulfill Bible prophecy!

A. Plain Bible passages say that Israel got all the land promised Abraham:

1. "So the Lord gave Israel all the land which He had sworn to give to their fathers, and they possessed it and lived in it. And the Lord gave them rest on every side, according to all that He had sworn to their fathers, and no one of all their enemies stood before them; the Lord gave all their enemies into their hand. Not one of the good promises which the Lord had made to the house of Israel failed; all came to pass. " (Joshua 21:43-45)

2. "Now behold, today I am going the way of all the earth, and you know in all your hearts and in all your souls that not one word of all the good words which the Lord your God spoke concerning you has failed; all have been fulfilled for you, not one of them has failed. "It shall come about that just as all the good words which the Lord your God spoke to you have come upon you, so the Lord will bring upon you all the threats, until He has destroyed you from off this good land which the Lord your God has given you. " (Joshua 23:14-15)

3. Josh 24:28 Then Joshua dismissed the people, each to his inheritance.
=================
1948 Israeli statehood is irrelevant

1. Fleshly Israel is lost without Christ.
2. Restoring temple sacrifices in Jerusalem is a denial of the blood of Christ.
3. Israeli statehood 1948 AD was not prophesied and is not a sign of a soon to happen second coming.
4. Rapture/Restoration texts refuted
5. Read more
 
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Adamina

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Thanks for that link.
I am still studying on the eschatological doctrine.
Excerpts from that site:

My discussion of the amillennial understanding of the millennium will include the following topics: the interpretation of the book of Revelation, the interpretation of Revelation 20:1-6, a look at two Old Testament passages commonly viewed as predicting an earthly millennial kingdom, a brief sketch of amillennial eschatology and a summarizing statement of some of the implications of amillennial eschatology..........................

Some Implications of Amillennial Eschatology

What, in conclusion, are some of the implications of amillennial eschatology for our theological understanding? Let me mention four of them:

  1. What binds the Old and New Testaments together is the unity of the covenant of grace. Amillennialists do not believe that sacred history is to be divided into a series of distinct and disparate dispensations but see a single covenant of grace running through all of that history. This covenant of grace is still in effect today and will culminate in the eternal dwelling together of God and his redeemed people on the new earth.
  2. The kingdom of God is central in human history. That kingdom was predicted and prepared for in Old Testament times, was established on earth by Jesus Christ, was extended and expanded both in New Testament times and during the subsequent history of the church, and will finally be consummated in the life to come.
  3. Jesus Christ is the Lord of history. This means that all of history is under Christ’s control and will ultimately prove to have been subservient to his purpose. We must therefore be concerned not just with enjoying the blessings of our salvation but also with joyfully serving Christ as Lord in every area of our lives.
  4. All of history is moving toward a goal: the total redemption of the universe. History is not meaningless but meaningful. Though we are not always able to discern the meaning of each historical event, we know what the ultimate outcome of history will be. We eagerly look forward to the new earth as part of a renewed universe in which God’s good creation will realize finally and totally the purpose for which he called it into existence: the glorification of his name.
All this implies that regarding world history, amillennialists adopt a position of sober or realistic optimism. Belief in the present rule of Christ, in the presence of God’s kingdom and in the movement of history toward its goal is accompanied by a realistic recognition of the presence of sin in this world and of the growing development of the kingdom of evil. Amillennial eschatology looks for a culmination of apostasy and tribulation in the final emergence of a personal Antichrist before Christ comes again. Amillennialists do not expect to see the perfect society realized during this present age.

Yet, since we know that the victory of Christ over evil was decisive and that Christ is now on the throne, the dominant mood of amillennial eschatology is optimism — Christian optimism. This means that we view no world crisis as totally beyond help and no social trend as absolutely irreversible. It means that we live in hope — a hope that is built on faith and that expresses itself in love.

Amillennial eschatology, therefore, gives us a realistic, yet basically optimistic world-and-life view. It is an eschatology which is exciting, exhilarating and challenging. It is an eschatology which gives us an inspiring vision of the lordship of Christ over history and of the ultimate triumph of his kingdom.
 
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