OSAS....= is Grace

LoveGodsWord

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Not interested and there is nothing left to discuss. We have previously had numerous discussions already and they always turn out the same. I disagree with your SDA gospel and no amount of further discussion is going to change that. ;)
Or is it that your not able to answer the questions asked of you and do not wish to discuss scripture with me? You do not have to answer them if you do not wish to maybe you can pray about it. :)
 
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Danthemailman

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Or is it that your not able to answer the questions asked of you and do not wish to discuss scripture with me? You do not have to answer them if you do not wish to maybe you can pray about it. :)
That's your pride speaking. Again, multiple people (including myself) have already spent a lot of time providing you with detailed scriptural proof of the truth of the gospel found in God's Word and have answered questions, yet you will accept none of it and instead, continue to repost the same list of out of context scripture references with the same insistence that only you are right and the rest of us are wrong. I'm done playing games with you, but I will continue to pray for you. :prayer:
 
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LoveGodsWord

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That's your pride speaking. Again, multiple people (including myself) have already spent a lot of time providing you with detailed scriptural proof of the truth of the gospel found in God's Word and have answered questions, yet you will accept none of it and instead, continue to repost the same list of out of context scripture references with the same insistence that only you are right and the rest of us are wrong. I'm done playing games with you, but will continue to pray for you. :prayer:
Well that is not true. I respond to your posts with God's Word while you provide none in return. Who should we believe God or you? What scriptures have you provided to show that anything I have posted is not God's Word? If you provide none or do not respond to my posts and the scriptures provided in them that disagree with your teachings why do you pretend that you have? Seems like you are full of empty allegations unsupported by God's Word that you are not willing to discuss. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *MATTHEW 15:3-9. Your better off praying for yourself Dan, if your teaching others to break God's Commandments. I will pray for you too :crossrc:
 
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Grip Docility

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Well that is not true. I respond to your posts with God's Word while you provide none in return. Who should we believe God or you? What scriptures have you provided to show that anything I have posted is not God's Word? If you provide none or do not respond to my posts and the scriptures provided in them that disagree with your teachings why do you pretend that you have? Seems like you are full of empty allegations unsupported by God's Word that you are not willing to discuss. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *MATTHEW 15:3-9. Your better off praying for yourself Dan, if your teaching others to break God's Commandments. I will pray for you too :crossrc:

May I ask you some questions? Scripture questions only.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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May I ask you some questions? Scripture questions only.
Absolutely brother please go ahead. I will try and log in as I can so please forgive a slow replies :D

God bless.
 
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Grip Docility

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Absolutely brother please go ahead. I will try and log in as I can so please forgive a slow reply :D

God bless.

Thank you. All patience in place.

What does 1 Corinthians 15:55-57 say, from your perspective?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Thank you. All patience in place.

What does 1 Corinthians 15:55-57 say, from your perspective?

Thanks brother Grip.

Let's start with the context of 1 CORINTHIANS 15 which is over the resurrection of JESUS from the dead 15v1-11. This is then followed with PAUL talking about some did not BELIEVE in the resurrection of the dead and Paul arguing that if that were true then their salvation is in vain and they are still in their sins and those which also sleep are also perished 15v12-19. Then Paul goes on to argue that Christ is risen from the dead as a type of first fruits from the dead and the end of death to those in Christ v20-26. Side note: this is a reference to the fulfillment of one of the annual feasts of the OLD COVENANT called the "Feasts of first fruits" that pointed to JESUS *EXODUS 23:14-17; 34:22; NUMBERS 28:25-26. From v27-28 God puts all things under Christ.

Paul continues arguing against those who do no believe in the resurrection in v29-33 pointing to baptism and no point in living a holy life if one believes this false teaching v32. Paul concludes this section encouraging those to continue to believe and awake to rightouesness and SIN NOT v34 pointing to those do not have the knowledge of God and continues arguing for the physical resurrection of the dead and the physical bodies that are made by God v35-41.

From v41-50 Paul likens the physical resurection from the dead to corruptible to incorruptible at resurrection and physical flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of God and comparing those of Adam being earthly and those of the Lord being Heavenly. From v51-54 talks about the 2nd coming at the last trump the dead in Christ being raised from the dead and our bodies being changed wheather dead or alive from corruptible to incorruptible and immortality and the victory over death through the power of Christ. Now as can be seen above the CONTEXT of 1 CORINTHIANS 15 is the resurrection from the dead (Side note: Just for interest; the Saducees did not believe in the ressurection of the dead; ACTS 23:8).

Now with the above context established let's look at the scriptures..

1 CORINTHIANS 15:55-58
[55], O death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your victory?

Paul is continuing the same thought arguing for the ressurrection from the dead that death cannot hold all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word (JESUS).

[56], The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

The wages of sin is death *ROMANS 6:23 and it is through God's LAW that we have the knowledge of what SIN is *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4.

[57], But thanks be to God, which gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

JESUS has given us the victory over sin and death (v56-57) *See also ROMANS 8:2

[58], Therefore, my beloved brothers, be you steadfast, unmovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, for as much as you know that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.

Paul closes by encouraging the BELIEVERS to continue in the faith beliving and following God's Word and not to be moved from the hope of eternal life and resurrection from the dead.

Hope you did not mind me establishing the context here. Sorry if it made the post a little long.

God bless brother :)
 
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Grip Docility

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Thanks brother Grip.

Let's start with the context of 1 CORINTHIANS 15 which is over the resurrection of JESUS from the dead 15v1-11. This is then followed with PAUL talking about some did not BELIEVE in the resurrection of the dead and Paul arguing that if that were true then their salvation is in vain and they are still in their sins and those which also sleep are also perished 15v12-19. Then Paul goes on to argue that Chrsit is risen from the dead as a type of first fruits from the dead and the end of death to those in Christ v20-26. Side note: this is a reference to the fulfillment of one of the annual feasts of the OLD COVENANT called the "Feasts of first fruits" that pointed to JESUS *EXODUS 23:14-17; 34:22; NUMBERS 28:25-26. From v27-28 God puts all things under Christ.

Paul continues arguing against those who do no believe in the resurrection in v29-33 pointing to baptism and no point in living a holy life if one believes this false teaching v32. Paul concludes this section encouraging those to continue to believe and awake to rightouesness and SIN NOT v34 pointing to those do not have the knowledge of God and continues arguing for the physical resurrection of the dead and the physical bodies that are made by God v35-41.

From v41-50 Paul likens the physical resurection from the dead to corruptible to incorruptible at resurrection and physical flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of God and comparing those of Adam being earthly and those of the Lord being Heavenly. From v51-54 talks about the 2nd coming at the last trump the dead in Christ being raised from the dead and our bodies being changed wheather dead or alive from corruptible to incorruptible and immortality and the victory over death through the power of Christ. Now as can be seen above the CONTEXT of 1 CORINTHIANS 15 is the resurrection from the dead (Side note: Just for interest; the Saducees did not believe in the ressurection of the dead; ACTS 23:8).

Now with the above context established let's look at the scriptures..

1 CORINTHIANS 15:55-58
[55], O death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your victory?

Paul is continuing the same thought arguing for the ressurrection from the dead that death cannot hold all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word (JESUS).

[56], The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

The wages of sin is death *ROMANS 6:23 and it is through God's LAW that we have the knowledge of what SIN is *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4.

[57], But thanks be to God, which gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

JESUS has given us the victory over sin and death (v56-57)

[58], Therefore, my beloved brothers, be you steadfast, unmovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, for as much as you know that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.

Paul closes by encouraging the BELIEVERS to continue in the faith beliving and following God's Word and not to be moved from the hope of eternal life and resurrection from the dead.

Hope you did not mind me establishing the context here. Sorry if it made the post a little long.

God bless brother :)

Awesome contextual work! It is always enjoyable to see Exegesis that is generated from study! :)

Next passage, according to your timing... Galatians 4:30... when you read this, what is your impression of it’s implication?
 
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JLB777

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There’s a difference between knowing Jesus is real and...

Believing in Him.

That’s what that verse means.


This difference is realizing Jesus is Lord and obeying Him.


Here are some scriptures that prove obeying Jesus is mandatory for salvation and eternal life.


Those Christians who do not obey Him, do not remain in Hm.



He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


Eternal life is “knowing Him” - John 17:3



Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24



Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15



If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
1 John 4:20-21



Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9


Anyone who goes too far and does not live by the teachings of Christ does not have God. If you live by what Christ taught, you have both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9 NLV



He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:12



“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.””
‭‭JOHN‬ ‭3:36‬ ‭



  • he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.




JLB
 
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TheSeabass

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I hope everyone had a blessed Easter.
Jesus is risen, and isn't this Good News.

We might add to our prayer time a prayer for those who were injured in Sri Lanka, and of course for their families.
--------------------------------------

So, i wanted to ask you... Have any of you ever heard of OSAS?
This concept is an interesting outcome of salvation, and a prime result of Grace.
Its a "man made" idea, and similar to the word "Trinity", its not found in any Greek Text, or in any Translation of Scripture that make up any New Testament, extant.

Now, about "Grace".
I like this word "Grace", as this word describes the nature of God, and gives us an understanding of what the Love of God is like. His love is Grace.
I guess we could say that a combination of words like (charity, compassion, mercy, hope, goodness, forgiveness), and similar could barely try to help us understand God and His nature of Grace, because its Salvation that really spotlights, "Grace", as this is God giving the life of His Son, for the undeserving, and in this we see......Grace.......The Grace of God.

If we consider that Jesus is the heart of God, and when we have seen Jesus, we have seen the Father, then Grace also accurately describes ......Jesus.
Jesus, literally IS Grace.
This could be explained or demonstrated by the idea that God Himself, wrapped in human flesh, born of a virgin, was "manifested as a man, as a Savior, to take away the sin of the world"......and He did.
Jesus bore the sin of the world, but the application of this Grace, is not executed into/unto a person, unless they meet the one requirement that God requires for Him to give to you the "Righteousness of Christ:....and your FAITH, is the one "work" that God requires for you to receive the imputed Righteousness of HIMSELF.
No other work will He accept from you, to save you, and recreate you as "born again" for eternity.

The Blood Atonement is Grace.......and Salvation is a product of God's Grace.
The Cross, the blood of Jesus, the resurrection, these are all examples of Grace as a literal reality, regarding how the Love of God is expressed towards all of His creation, as perfect love and mercy and hope.

Another truth and perfect way to express Grace/Salvation, in the Christian context, would be......OSAS.

So, what is this, exactly? As there are many deceits written about it in books, and pamphlets, and on forums like this one, and many denominations are probably originally birthed as some type of resistance to the very idea of what they think it means.
What i can tell you, is that the KJV and the idea/subject of OSAS, get insulted more by Christians, then any of the cults you find, such as JW's, and Mormons, and others.
Yes, the KJV and OSAS, endure more mean spirited carnal ridicule, by people who say they are born again, then any true false religious cult, or all of them, combined.
And this is fascinating, as the reality is, most, maybe 90 % of the people who have such hatred in their heart for both the KJV and idea of OSAS, actually have a very skewed and misinformed understanding of both.........and its to this point, i'll write a brief bit of clarification, regarding only one......OSAS.

So what is it?......What is OSAS?......... well, simply put its God's Grace.
Thats what it is.
First, its an understanding that you are born again only once, and that you can't be "unborn again".
Just as you can't go back into your mother's womb, you also can't stop being 'in Christ".
You can't be "unborn" as a heavenly Son of God, just like you can't be unborn from the Mother who birthed you into this earthly existence.
Born is Born.....done is done........"It is finished", once it is applied to you..(Blood Atonement).
So, OSAS, is an understanding-comprehension of Salvation and of the Blood Atonement, that realizes that the mercy of God that saved you, is the same mercy that keeps you saved.
Its the SAME. = He who saved you, will keep you saved., and you have no part in this...none.
Its an understanding that the Law that once judged you as a sinner, has been abolished by the Cross, and thereby has no more power or authority to judge you ever again. This is why the scripture says that "Grace came by Jesus", and we are "Under Grace" now, and no longer under (being judged by) the Law.
Romans 4:8...study it.

And this means that God judged Himself on a Cross, as guilty for our sin, and this judgment will never fall again on a born again Son of God in Eternity/Heaven, as it already fell on Jesus The Christ, on earth.
If you, the reader, are not saved, if you are not born again, and you die, you will meet God as your Judge, and you can realize what happened to Jesus on a Cross, to honestly evaluate what you are up-against, for eternity, if you die as a Christ Rejector.
But if you are born again, then you will never meet God as Judge in heaven, as Christ has already met the Judge for you, on earth.
You will only meet your God as your Father, ......IF you are born again.

Then there is this part. A person who realizes that OSAS, is just giving God full credit for saving them and keeping them saved, also understands that they are to "be ye holy, as God is holy"...>"present your body a living sacrifice"..... everyday, every minute... without FAIL.
See...
OSAS, is not a "license to sin", as it is portrayed by liars and similar.....not at all.
OSAS, is simply the understanding of "born again"....which gives GOD and Christ full credit, for Salvation...for saving us and keeping us saved.
A person who understands that God saves once, and that "born again" happens once, and
"God is the author and finisher of our faith, and that the God who started Salvation in us, is faithful to complete it".....OSAS =believes this truth, and does not try to add their self effort (works) in place OF this truth.... that God alone saves you and keeps you saved.
Philippians 1:6
Hebrews 12:2

OSAS, defined....= simply gives God full credit for Salvation......the beginning of it, and the ending of it.
Thats it.
Simple.

And finally, a person who understands that Grace, is OSAS...(they are the same), that Salvation itself is explained perfectly by OSAS.....WE understand also a very important understanding.
And this is where the problem starts for legalists, as its this one misunderstanding, that if they could come to understand this one theological fact, and grasp it, they could come to see the Light, that Grace is actually OSAS.

Here is their issue.......... A Legalist, or someone who hates OSAS, does not understand that our Christian Discipleship, is something we do because we ARE saved, and never something we do to try to save ourselves or keep ourselves saved.
In other words....Salvation, is all of God, applied to us...and then, ONCE WE HAVE IT.... we try to live a lifestyle (Discipleship) that reflects what we have become, that is caused and kept ONLY by God and the Blood of Jesus.
The legalist, has the idea that God started salvation, and they finish it by their lifestyle, and if they get this wrong, or don't do enough, then, God will remove them from the Book of Life, and Jesus will find a way out of their body, and take the Holy Spirit with Him.
Which of course, is impossible, but that is what would have to happen, if you could "lose it".(lose your salvation). And so, OSAS, understands that this is not possible. Its not possible for Jesus to exit you once He is living IN YOU and you are "in Christ"..= "unborn again". However the legalist will insist that this can happen if you dont continue in a lifestyle that they feel QUALIFIES you to stay saved and inherit heaven by works, ONLY if you continue.....

So, one thing to add... and for you to consider.
Every work, you can do for God... commandment keeping, confessing sins, missionary work, joining a church, living a holy lifestyle.... Listen, all of these DEEDS, can be done, even if Jesus never hung as God on a Cross.
Now think about that...
In other words, all that a legalist is doing to "stay saved".. all of it, can be done by ANYONE, and Jesus never had to come down here as God and die, if any of this could save you.
So, a question for you legalist....= Would any of those works you are doing that you can do, before the Cross was given, or after.......If there was NO CROSS, would any of your works, works, works, save you?
NO !!
Then why would you believe that if none of those can save you, and only Jesus Saves, .. would you believe that what won't save you without the Blood Atonement, the CROSS......why would you think any of these works, if not done after you are SAVED, that this could cause you not to be saved?
This type Legalist mentality, is not only missing truth, its missing Logic.
So, a legalist believes that what can't save them...is able to take away their salvation, if they dont do the LIST of works, whatever that is, (till they die) as its a different list for each legalist.
> Wild.

So, the OSAS person, understands that all that legalism junk, is not something they will ever be found dead worrying about, because they understand that the God who saves us, keeps us saved, and that is OSAS.......thats what it means.
It means to give full credit to God and Christ for Salvation....Both saving us and keeping us saved, as this is GRACE, and GRACE is OSAS.

Philippians 1:6
Hebrews 12:2

Nowhere in the NT is salvation ever said to be an unconditionally guarantee, that the Christian will for certain be saved regardless of the kind of life the Christian lives. (2 Peter 1:5-9) Salvation is totally conditional upon the life lives.... the deeds one does, the thoughts one has in his heart and words one says, (Romans 2:6-10; Matthew 12:37; Matthew 5:28)

In the garden of Eden God told Adam and Eve "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Yet Satan later tells Eve "Ye shall not surely die". Satan gave Adam and Eve the license to sin, permission to go against God's law and face no repercussion, no consequence. Thus the idea OSAS was born in the garden of Eden as taught by Satan.
 
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Grip Docility

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Nowhere in the NT is salvation ever said to be an unconditionally guarantee, that the Christian will for certain be saved regardless of the kind of life the Christian lives. (2 Peter 1:5-9) Salvation is totally conditional upon the life lives.... the deeds one does, the thoughts one has in his heart and words one says, (Romans 2:6-10; Matthew 12:37; Matthew 5:28)

In the garden of Eden God told Adam and Eve "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Yet Satan later tells Eve "Ye shall not surely die". Satan gave Adam and Eve the license to sin, permission to go against God's law and face no repercussion, no consequence. Thus the idea OSAS was born in the garden of Eden as taught by Satan.

John 5:24
John 6:29
John 6:63
Acts 16:31
Meh... Cross reference those if ya want. I guess it matters if a person Believes what He’s saying?
 
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JLB777

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John 5:24
John 6:29
John 6:63
Acts 16:31
Meh... Cross reference those if ya want. I guess it matters if a person Believes what He’s saying?


None of those scripture references say anything about salvation being guaranteed no matter how the Christian lives there life.


This one does though -


Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29


  • those who have done good, to the resurrection of life


again



Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


Christians, who for whatever reason, begin to hate their brother are murderers.


you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.


No murderer has eternal life remaining in him.


Eternal life does not remain in those who hate.



JLB
 
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Grip Docility

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None of those scripture references say anything about salvation being guaranteed no matter how the Christian lives there life.


This one does though -


Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29


  • those who have done good, to the resurrection of life


again



Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


Christians, who for whatever reason, begin to hate their brother are murderers.


you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.


No murderer has eternal life remaining in him.


Eternal life does not remain in those who hate.



JLB

When someone genuinely accepts Jesus... the Holy Spirit imparts compassion for all humanity. Not as amazing as God’s compassion for ALL humanity... but more than enough to assist in knowing the difference between self defense, protecting the weak and straight up murder.

Do you doubt this?

And one more time...

John 5:24 <~ that’s the King of Kings

What is He saying to you?
 
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JLB777

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When someone genuinely accepts Jesus... the Holy Spirit imparts compassion for all humanity. Not as amazing as God’s compassion for ALL humanity... but more than enough to assist in knowing the difference between self defense, protecting the weak and straight up murder.

Do you doubt this?

And one more time...

John 5:24 <~ that’s the King of Kings

What is He saying to you?


He is saying you are stating All opinion no scripture.

Only scripture references with your opinion.


None of those scripture references say anything about salvation being guaranteed no matter how the Christian lives there life.


This one does though -


Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29


  • those who have done good, to the resurrection of life


again



Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


Christians, who for whatever reason, begin to hate their brother are murderers.


you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.


No murderer has eternal life remaining in him.


Eternal life does not remain in those who hate.



JLB
 
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Grip Docility

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He is saying you are stating All opinion no scripture.

Only scripture references with your opinion.

Oh, that’s what Jesus was saying in John 5:24


None of those scripture references say anything about salvation being guaranteed no matter how the Christian lives there life.

Rape, Murder... and the like... Do you honestly think a person that is broken and Loved by the Unlimited Grace Of God is going to be UnConstrained by Love?


This one does though -


Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29


  • those who have done good, to the resurrection of life


again



Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


Christians, who for whatever reason, begin to hate their brother are murderers.


you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.


No murderer has eternal life remaining in him.


Eternal life does not remain in those who hate.



JLB

Am I not agreeing about the Love imparted by the Holy Spirit?

I’m not certain if you really believe that we are judged by our deeds.

If a person claims to have Jesus and Rips their fellow human being to shreds, they are missing something. If a Christian is set up as a Carnal Judge, I think they’re missing something too.

But, is it our place to separate the Wheat from the Tares?

Hint... Jesus actually answers this.
 
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JLB777

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Rape, Murder... and the like... Do you honestly think a person that is broken and Loved by the Unlimited Grace Of God is going to be UnConstrained by Love?


I know that born again Christians who begin to hate, for whatever reason, no longer have eternal life remaining in them.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


Anyone who hates his Christian brother is really a murderer at heart; and you know that no one wanting to murder has eternal life within.
1 John 3:15 Living Bible





JLB
 
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JLB777

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I’m not certain if you really believe that we are judged by our deeds.

If a person claims to have Jesus and Rips their fellow human being to shreds, they are missing something. If a Christian is set up as a Carnal Judge, I think they’re missing something too.


If a Christians hates his brother, then he is a murderer, and no murderer has eternal life remaining within them.


He does even have to lay a finger on his brother, but hate him.




JLB
 
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