Why debate at all?

Tone · May 18, 2019

No Username Found said:
Apologetics is not for "proving Christianity" to unbelievers. I have never seen anyone successfully convince a skeptic through apologetics. The only thing apologetics have ever accomplished in these situations is made the skeptic more hardened

Acts 17
"22Then Paul stood up before the Areopagus and said, “Men of Athens, I see that in every way you are very religious. 23For as I walked around and examined your objects of worship, I even found an altar with the inscription: To an unknown God.Therefore what you worship as something unknown,I now proclaim to you. "

Apologetics is much more than a hindsight type thing. It is the ability to find common ground and a door of entry into realms of darkness...into which we may reach and pull many from the fire...

Sola1517 · May 18, 2019

No Username Found said:
What translation of 2 Corinthians are you using?

Christian Standard Bible.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · May 18, 2019

Sola1517 said:
Christian Standard Bible.

I didn't know George Carlin was in the CSB. I am just being cheeky by the way.

Sola1517 · May 18, 2019

No Username Found said:
I didn't know George Carlin was in the CSB. I am just being cheeky by the way.

Let's have a debate on the issue.

Tone · May 18, 2019

Sola1517 said:
Let's have a debate on the issue.

FORMAL DEBATE! FORMAL DEBATE! FORMAL DEBATE!

:bigeye:

Sola1517 · May 18, 2019

No Username Found said:
I didn't know George Carlin was in the CSB. I am just being cheeky by the way.

Tone said:
FORMAL DEBATE! FORMAL DEBATE! FORMAL DEBATE!

I think with some good, clean, Christian mysticism we could find George Carlin in there, the Bible says so!

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · May 18, 2019

Sola1517 said:
I think with some good, clean, Christian mysticism we could find George Carlin in there, the Bible says so!

Rest in peace George Carlin. You are missed.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · May 18, 2019

I used to spend a lot of time on atheist forums. What I found interesting was that they actually had a area for formal debate. I believe they called it "the Arena." They had rules and moderators to ensure the debate was civil. One example of such rules were only the who opponents could participate in the thread. At the conclusion of the debate, a poll would open up for people to vote on the winner.

Tone · May 18, 2019

tonyt147 said:
I believe everyone is an "apologetic" unless if you got a reading level below that of a sixth grader. I mean who wants to live by a blind faith or perform religious practices they don't understand? That's suicide.

Sounds like what happened with the whole clergy/laity divide where you had the literate taking advantage of the illiterate and instead of teaching and training every member to be on the same level, you had the clerics assuming control.

tonyt147 said:
so corrupted nowadays is because the parents don't bother to know the Bible. Or they got suckered into serving a high position in the church and got swallowed up by pride. So they ended up being used by the Devil to wreck their own family instead of guiding them to Jesus Christ.

Again, sounds like Clericalism (clergaism should be a word). Why was there even "A high position" in the church?

tonyt147 said:
What we need is not debates but for our public elementary schools to start teaching 4th grader critical thinking. That will solve everything.

That's never gonna happen in the pubic schools, but parents should not be lazy and teach their kids at home. What definitely should happen in the churches though, is a formal educating of its members in the same way the elders were trained and educated.

*Clericalism - Wikipedia

servantofChrist27 · May 18, 2019

I agree, I've never actually seen anyone saved through debate. The Gospel is the POWER of GOD unto salvation and debate is man's attempt to define God. I'm sorry your faith has been shaken, but this documentary helped me greatly;

tonyt147 · May 18, 2019

That's never gonna happen in the pubic schools, but parents should not be lazy and teach their kids at home. What definitely should happen in the churches though, is a formal educating of its members in the same way the elders were trained and educated.

*Clericalism - Wikipedia

Do you know why that is or is that just a personal opinion? I know my elementary education was utter trash because our country is dirt poor. We were having "nap time" at 4th grade can you believe it? It's like we hadn't graduated from preschool.

Tone · May 18, 2019

tonyt147 said:
Do you know why that is or is that just a personal opinion? I know my elementary education was utter trash because our country is dirt poor. We were having "nap time" at 4th grade can you believe it? It's like we hadn't graduated from preschool.

Probably,because most school teachers don't even know critical thinking skills...nor does the average person off the street.

tonyt147 · May 18, 2019

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
Only God knows who has receptive hearts and Faith is a gift from God.

Regards Tony

Sir, I'm curious. Is this what Baha'I teaches or is it a personal conviction kinda thing? I know some Christian group teaches the same thing.

Tone · May 18, 2019

...I hear sirens...

topher694 · May 18, 2019

Tone said:
...I hear sirens...

Crash and burn. Ah Tony, we barely got to know you.

Tony Bristow-Stagg · May 19, 2019

tonyt147 said:
Sir, I'm curious. Is this what Baha'I teaches or is it a personal conviction kinda thing? I know some Christian group teaches the same thing.

I see it is a Bible type of thing,

that is also taught by Baha'u'llah.

Ephesians 2:8 "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God"

That says to me Faith is given by the Grace of God.

I see this passage should not be read as one is saved without good deeds and works as they are an essential part of our journey, especially when one receives such a bounty.

Also what God gives, God can take away.

Regards Tony

tim bennett · May 19, 2019

Anthony2019 said:
Sometimes I can't help but chuckle when I log in and see the same "debates" get re-enacted over and over again. Usually it's some issue no-one can agree on and keeping the debate running is like flogging a dead horse. I'm often amazed if the threads go further than the first page without everyone throwing their toys out of the pram.

Debate is precisely what it is. It's not a sermon. It's not me teaching you or telling you what you must believe and what you must do. It's about sharing my thoughts on a topic and listening to yours. I might not always agree with your conclusions, but I am interested in what life experiences you had which brought you to those conclusions so I can be a person who is more tolerant, understanding, and willing to learn.

yes

Servant of Yeshua · May 19, 2019

YJM said:
Respectfully every believer is called to give an answer, there is no such thing as "some who are not called to Apologetics". Unless of course you can give me chapter and verse...maybe I've missed that calling but I doubt it.

I guess I took what he meant as not many should become teachers.
James 3:1 "Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness. "

Without really knowing your specifics about falling away due to debate, I would say that it is good that it was revealed that you did not truly believe. This way now that you have made a solid choice for Christ, you are saved and hopefully experience a difference from before when you were perhaps in "like" with Christ, but not "in love". My prayers are with you today that you would be confident in Christ's salvation.
Romans 10:9. Peace to you.

YJM · May 19, 2019

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
Same type of view as and most likely why the Jews crucified Christ, but that did not prove thier view was right, in fact we know they got it very wrong.

Your hate speech against Muhammad and the Quran is based in the same mentality.

These are the dense clouds that will always prevent the sun of Christ shining. May you become a lover of the Light, no matter where it shines from.

Peace be with you always. Regards Tony

I'm going to agree to disagree - we are definintely NOT on the same page, and I'm very comfortable with my view, despite you labelling it hate speech.

o/

S.O.J.I.A. · May 19, 2019

YJM said:
Isn't it risky to allow debate that may take away others from the true faith of Christ?

a lot of atheists would probably say that's more or less the point to them debating.

Why debate at all?

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