The bible is not pratical

Kenny'sID

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No allowance is made for harming another man. Nowhere in the NT under grace do we find an occasion for killing. We only find that we are to lay down our own lives for our brethren to be killed all the day long as sheep to the slaughter loving not our lives unto death. Love worketh no ill to his neighbor and to harm ones neighbor shows that you hate him. Thus breaking the command of God.

There is no exception or occasion given for lying or killing. So every servant of the world governments who does these things is damned, even if they think they are doing good.

Then Gods armies of the OT as well as those now and to come, as well as God himself, must be murderers.

Of course there is exception, and you saying there is not, far from makes it so. God has his hand on the law of the land and no one goes to jail for murder in wartime unless it's a war crime, a rule God himself has his hand on.
 
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TRVL ONE

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Killing and lying are always sins. But circumstances may mitigate their gravity.

Killing is not always a sin, God gives governments the right to execute criminals and to defend their nations with their military. We are also permitted to kill to protect.
 
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RDKirk

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In order to catch criminals undercover cops have to lie, deceive and often times cuss. They have to sin in order to catch criminals, which means that the bible is useless.

If we did things the way the bible tells, criminals would never get caught.

We see quite a bit of tactical deception happening in the OT by people of God, and sometimes even initiated by God, so your basic assumption is flawed. God demands that His people give the truth to those to whom truth is owed. It can't be demonstrated by scripture that includes people who are trying to harm you.
 
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StephenDiscipleofYHWH

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Then Gods armies of the OT as well as those now and to come, as well as God himself, must be murderers.

Of course there is exception, and you saying there is not, far from makes it so. God has his hand on the law of the land and no one goes to jail for killing for murder in wartime unless it's a war crime, a rule God himself has his hand on.
OT Law is not NT Law. Under the Old covenant what was done by David and Solemon, and the rest, was just in the eyes of God. Under the New Covenant we are not just in the eyes of God to harm any man for any reason. Two different sets of Laws, the Old is not the New and the New is not the Old.

God says there is no exception. I can show you every place in the New Testament under grace that says we cannot harm any man for any reason without it being in sin. Then afterwards you can show me even one place in the NT under grace that says we can harm another human being without it being a sin. Deal?

God does not make the rules for the World Governments as they are not his government. The rulers of Darkness of this world are not God's people. They are of the world not of the Spirit. God punishes all those who kill, according to his law and his justice, not by any man made law.
 
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RDKirk

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OT Law is not NT Law. Under the Old covenant what was done by David and Solemon, and the rest, was just in the eyes of God. Under the New Covenant we are not just in the eyes of God to harm any man for any reason. Two different sets of Laws, the Old is not the New and the New is not the Old.

God says there is no exception. I can show you every place in the New Testament under grace that says we cannot harm any man for any reason without it being in sin. Then afterwards you can show me even one place in the NT under grace that says we can harm another human being without it being a sin. Deal?

God does not make the rules for the World Governments as they are not his government. The rulers of Darkness of this world are not God's people. They are of the world not of the Spirit. God punishes all those who kill according to his law and his justice, not by any man made law.

And that is true as well.

We need to understand: Christ never intended Christians to be in charge of human governments. We were always intended to be in tension with human governments, not part of them.

Yes, we do see--in the absolute very beginning of the Church--"government workers" like Cornelius being brought into the Body of Christ. We do not, however, see them remaining in Caesar's government.
 
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StephenDiscipleofYHWH

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And that is true as well.

We need to understand: Christ never intended Christians to be in charge of human governments. We were always intended to be in tension with human governments, not part of them.

Yes, we do see--in the absolute very beginning of the Church--"government workers" like Cornelius being brought into the Body of Christ. We do not, however, see them remaining in Caesar's government.
Yes, as it is the world governments who are supposed to oppress us and hate us(along with the rest of the world) for Christ's name and Gospel.

Yes, if a person was a part of the world government before hearing about the Gospel then afterwards they must choose between serving the governments of the world or serving God(as a person cannot serve both). After coming to Christ a person must devote themselves to the Lord and stop serving world Governments/killing for them/swearing allegiance to them.
 
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Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

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I just want to add that King David was tormented by the guilt of his bloodshed and asked The Lord to take it away from him :


Deliver me from the guilt of bloodshed, O God, The God of my salvation......
• Psalm 51:14
 
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TRVL ONE

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We see quite a bit of tactical deception happening in the OT by people of God, and sometimes even initiated by God, so your basic assumption is flawed. God demands that His people give the truth to those to whom truth is owed. It can't be demonstrated by scripture that includes people who are trying to harm you.

Give verses. There aren't many cases of this and I'm not smart enough to know when lying and deceit is ALWAYS approved by God. Maybe you are smart enough. Besides that the Government doesn't care whether they are sinning or not to catch criminals or spies.
 
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RDKirk

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Give verses. There aren't many cases of this and I'm not smart enough to know when lying and deceit is ALWAYS approved by God. Maybe you are smart enough. Besides that the Government doesn't care whether they are sinning or not to catch criminals or spies.

You yourself said that you've seen some, and one has been given to you--the Hebrew midwives.

Another is the "three days in the desert" lie God gave to Moses to tell the pharaoh. The point is that God understands and uses tactical deception in combat.
 
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Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

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You yourself said that you've seen some, and one has been given to you--the Hebrew midwives.

Another is the "three days in the desert" lie God gave to Moses to tell the pharaoh. The point is that God understands and uses tactical deception in combat.


This kind of reasoning isn't going hold any weight with The Lord on Judgement Day.

Using tactical "Sexually Immorality" for "combat"

Using tactical "Murder" for "combat"

Using tactical "Idolatry" for "combat"

Using tactical "Sorcery" for "combat"

The Lord isn't going to just wink at people's sin and say "Oh I understand, it was was for war so that makes it ok"

He is going to tell those people :
And then I will declare to them, 'I Never Knew You; Depart From Me, You Who Practice Lawlessness !'
• Matthew 7:23



But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, Murderers, Sexually Immoral, Sorcerers, Idolaters, And All Liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone.....

• Revelation 21:8


0*lpurBYQAYP_2h1Eb
 
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RDKirk

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This kind of reasoning isn't going hold any weight with The Lord on Judgement Day.

Using tactical "Sexually Immorality" for "combat"

Using tactical "Murder" for "combat"

Using tactical "Idolatry" for "combat"

Using tactical "Sorcery" for "combat"

The Lord isn't going to just wink at people's sin and say "Oh I understand, it was was for war so that makes it ok"

He is going to tell those people :
And then I will declare to them, 'I Never Knew You; Depart From Me, You Who Practice Lawlessness !'
• Matthew 7:23



But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, Murderers, Sexually Immoral, Sorcerers, Idolaters, And All Liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone.....

• Revelation 21:8


0*lpurBYQAYP_2h1Eb

You'll need to take that up with God and ask Him why He's in heaven.
 
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trulytheone

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Killing is not always a sin, God gives governments the right to execute criminals and to defend their nations with their military. We are also permitted to kill to protect.

Indeed God had permitted and even commanded killing in the Old Testament. But I am unaware of God allowing any form of killing or lying in the New Testament. Don't get me wrong, I do believe that governments themselves, killing to defend innocent lives, and lying to save innocent lives are necessary for most human survival in this fallen world. But, it is impossible for me to pretend that they can be carried out without, at least, a drop of sin.​
 
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Kenny'sID

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OT Law is not NT Law.

You misread, please see where I included more than just the OT:

Then Gods armies of the OT as well as those now and to come

I can show you every place in the New Testament under grace that says we cannot harm any man for any reason without it being in sin

Na, I don't work well with twisted "Grace only" teachers, you guys have a habit of teaching your own doctrine, and we'll end up arguing the Grace only thing and never make it back to the point.

Then afterwards you can show me even one place in the NT under grace that says we can harm another human being without it being a sin. Deal?

I've done it already but it takes a bit of common sense to understand, so....

Anyone who thinks God doesn't have his hand on our laws, well that's up to you...I'm certain he does. Also, I have never seen anyone tried for murder in war unless it's a war crime or huge injustice/mistake.

And you know, it takes very little of that common sense to see if we draft young men and force them into a war situation to where they have to kill or be killed, a fair God is simply not going to hold that against them as sin. And if you know of scripture that cites that exact scenario and calls it sin, please post it, If you do not have that specifically, then don't.
 
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Kenny'sID

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But, it is impossible for me to pretend that they can be carried out without, at least, a drop of sin.

You are correct, people, bad people, even good people, probably do get carried away, but "as a rule", is what I think we are saying.
 
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Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

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What's that? Is it any think like Tactical Killing, the very thing that war does, or they darned well better do it if they want to win?

..... And You Know That No Murderer Has Eternal Life Abiding In Him.
• 1 John 3:16


Was the killing of Women and Children at The Battle at Wounded Knee "Tactical" ?

They just wanted to "Win" right ?

233429d1292007031-bury-my-heart-wounded-knee-1381.jpg


1200px-Woundedknee1891.jpg
 
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Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

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What's that? Is it any think like Tactical Killing, the very thing that war does, or they darned well better do it if they want to win?


Was the Turks killing Armenian Children and starving them in The Armenian Genocide "Tactical" ?

They just wanted to "Win" right ?


12.jpg


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Turk_official_teasing_Armenian_starved_children_by_showing_bread,_1915_(Collection_of_St._Lazar_Mkhitarian_Congregation).jpg


children-taken-in-by-near-east-relief-during-the-armenian-genocide-1915-photo-u1
 
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Kenny'sID

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Was the killing of Women and Children at The Battle at Wounded Knee "Tactical" ?

Was the Turks killing Armenian Children and starving them in The Armenian Genocide "Tactical" ?

They just wanted to "Win" right ?

12.jpg


Turk_official_teasing_Armenian_starved_children_by_showing_bread,_1915_(Collection_of_St._Lazar_Mkhitarian_Congregation).jpg


children-taken-in-by-near-east-relief-during-the-armenian-genocide-1915-photo-u1

Was it? You are the one I'm asking to define "tactical" just so it's clear to me and others. Maybe you only need choose different wording because tactical warfare is a basic warfare.
 
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Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

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Was it? You are the one I'm asking to define "tactical" just so it's clear to me and others. Maybe you only need choose different wording because tactical warfare is a basic warfare.

Imagine standing before God on Judgement Day and trying to justify the killing of children because it was in a "Time of War".
 
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