Amillenialism and the nation of Israel

mister rogers said:

Wow that's weird. I've never heard of that. Hmm.

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....."weird" or it's fulfillment of His promise to Abraham.

mister rogers said:

Sam Storms seems to address this.
Romans 11 and the Future of Israel - Part I

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Right.

I can even agree with this (besides the use of "present dispensation"):

Quoting shared article by Sam Storms -. "O.Palmer Robertson reminds us, "that Jews have been saved and will continue to be saved throughout the present dispensation. This kind of 'future' for the descendants of Abraham is granted on all sides. "

mister rogers said:

Just seems weird that all people would have some physical lineage to Abraham. I've always seen the "multitude" to mean just many. But hey, ok, maybe.

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Promises of God typically look different before [we understand] they're fulfilled than after (because of our personal expectations).

mister rogers said:

Wow that's weird. I've never heard of that. Hmm.

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Scientific facts like this kind of put a wrench into the “God’s special DNA people” idea.

That, coupled with the biblical fact that Israel has always only been identified by the two chromosomes of faith and obedience.... for non-physical descendants throughout biblical history were always given equal status as physical Israel, even from the very beginning, if they converted and obey God’s Commandments, and physical descendants were always extinguished from ANY status as God’s physical Israel if they were disobedient to His Commandments.

DNA WAS ALWAYS, AND REMAINS, IRRELEVANT.

parousia70 said:

Scientific facts like this kind of put a wrench into the “God’s special DNA people” idea.

DNA WAS ALWAYS, AND REMAINS, IRRELEVANT.

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Yet Romans 9:1-6 and all the way through to Romans 11:11-36 specifically states otherwise.

Romans 10 even opens as Romans 9 does with Salvational desire towards Genetic Jew’s that are deceived.

Grip Docility said:

Yet Romans 9:1-6 and all the way through to Romans 11:11-36 specifically states otherwise.

Romans 10 even opens as Romans 9 does with Salvational desire towards Genetic Jew’s that are deceived.

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Do they state "For Jews, salvation is by DNA"?

Since all of humanity now possesses Jewish DNA, will everyone now be saved by DNA?

jgr said:

Do they state "For Jews, salvation is by DNA"?

Since all of humanity now possesses Jewish DNA, will everyone now be saved by DNA?

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I speak the truth in Christ —I am not lying; my conscience is testifying to me with the Holy Spirit — that I have intense sorrow and continual anguish in my heart. For I could almost wish to be cursed and cut off from the Messiah for the benefit of my brothers, my own flesh and blood. They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the temple service, and the promises. The ancestors are theirs, and from them, by physical descent, came the Messiah, who is God over all, praised forever. Amen.
Romans 9:1-5 - Bible Gateway passage: Romans 9:1-5 - Holman Christian Standard Bible

Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God concerning them is for their salvation! I can testify about them that they have zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. Because they disregarded the righteousness from God and attempted to establish their own righteousness, they have not submitted themselves to God’s righteousness.
Romans 10:1-3 - Bible Gateway passage: Romans 10:1-3 - Holman Christian Standard Bible

?!? Really?

Like it goes away because it’s said to not be there?

Grip Docility said:

I speak the truth in Christ —I am not lying; my conscience is testifying to me with the Holy Spirit — that I have intense sorrow and continual anguish in my heart. For I could almost wish to be cursed and cut off from the Messiah for the benefit of my brothers, my own flesh and blood. They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the temple service, and the promises. The ancestors are theirs, and from them, by physical descent, came the Messiah, who is God over all, praised forever. Amen.
Romans 9:1-5 - Bible Gateway passage: Romans 9:1-5 - Holman Christian Standard Bible

Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God concerning them is for their salvation! I can testify about them that they have zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. Because they disregarded the righteousness from God and attempted to establish their own righteousness, they have not submitted themselves to God’s righteousness.
Romans 10:1-3 - Bible Gateway passage: Romans 10:1-3 - Holman Christian Standard Bible

?!? Really?

Like it goes away because it’s said to not be there?

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Why was Paul all worked up if salvation was automatic by DNA?

He should have been ecstatic.

Really.

jgr said:

Why was Paul all worked up if salvation was automatic by DNA?

He should have been ecstatic.

Really.

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They were cut off and at no point does DNA save... the point is that God hasn’t abandoned them and has future plans for unBelieving Israel past and future.

Choice will remain a factor and only Jesus saves. There will be one last alter call. That is the point.

Grip Docility said:

They were cut off and at no point does DNA save... the point is that God hasn’t abandoned them and has future plans for u Believing Israel past and future.

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You are right. At no point does physical DNA save.

Only spiritual DNA saves.

Faith and obedience.

Those are the only ones for whom God has plans.

jgr said:

You are right. At no point does physical DNA save.

Only spiritual DNA saves.

Faith and obedience.

Those are the only ones for whom God has plans.

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Okay... put it another way...

Those in the BOC that claim those who don’t become part of the BOC, before death are eternally sealed and Damned are like another group...

Israel’s Theological Leadership spoke identically about all Non Israel and were angry when anyone suggested otherwise.

Who is the persistent widow?

Grip Docility said:

Okay... put it another way...

Those in the BOC that claim those who don’t become part of the BOC, before death are eternally sealed and Damned are like another group...

Israel’s Theological Leadership spoke identically about all Non Israel and were angry when anyone suggested otherwise.

Who is the persistent widow?

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The only theological leadership who merits our allegiance is Christ.

Persistence in prayer is characteristic of faith and obedience.

jgr said:

The only theological leadership who merits our allegiance is Christ.

Persistence in prayer is characteristic of faith and obedience.

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Funny you should answer that.

And again, who is “widowed” and persistently praying, though blind to Who they pray to?

Where would Paul be without Damascus?

Grip Docility said:

Funny you should answer that.

And again, who is “widowed” and persistently praying, though blind to Who they pray to?

Where would Paul be without Damascus?

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Luke 18:7. His elect. His faithful and obedient. They know to Whom they pray.

Where would any of us be without the Damascene call of the Holy Spirit?

jgr said:

Luke 18:7. His elect. His faithful and obedient. They know to Whom they pray.

Where would any of us be without the Damascene call of the Holy Spirit?

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Damascus... Saul... Enemy of the Gospel Jew

Hmmmmmmmm

Physical Revelation