Why debate at all?

YJM said:

Curious as to the purpose.

Click to expand...

I have been told that there is debate in which different ins and outs of a matter are brought up, so then everyone can come to a consensus. So, such debate is not just disagreeing and each one trying to prove one's position. But is it resourcing everyone for what each one has to offer.

And it can be like this, even in debating with a prejudiced atheist. I mean an atheist who has no intention of evaluating what I have to offer. Yet, I might benefit from hearing what the atheist says.

For example, one might complain that there is evil, and feel discouraged to trust in God. Well, this can remind me to have compassion on others who are suffering, plus remind me of how there are people who are suffering and discouraged because of evil, instead of being encouraged because of God through Jesus. But I will need to trust God to make me compassionate the way that really is good.

YJM said:

Curious as to the purpose.

Listening to Matt Dellahunty, Seth Andrews and others helped me to lose my faith for 2 years.

Now I have repented and I am hopefully accepted again by Christ.

Isn't it risky to allow debate that may take away others from the true faith of Christ?

What's the point?

Click to expand...

IMO, we should pray for faith and wisdom so that those who teach or preach error do not cause us to falter. And we should pray for discernment. When we discern that a teaching or preaching is not of the Holy Spirit, putting on the whole armor of God will protect us, but there is nothing wrong with walking away from that. But as always, neither should we shy away from opportunity to speak God's truth or reject our brother or sister in Christ simply because we disagree.

All this is to say that some are going to get things wrong--me included--and as long as we keep our eyes on the Christ and our relationship with Him, that's okay. We won't be harmed by technical error on this or that interpretation of scripture or point of doctrine. I believe when we all see somewhat through a glass darkly, and when we get to heaven and get the truth first hand, we're all going to have a good laugh at how much we got wrong from time to time.

At the same time, all preaching and teaching is a form of debate is it not? Some is obviously spirit led, but filtered through human words and the understanding of those who hear or read it. And the text of that is likely going to vary a bit, or even a lot, from one congregation to the next. And yet the hearers can be lifted up and edified and built up just the same which all valid preaching and teaching should do.

So we should not shy away from sharing and discussing various points of faith, scripture, doctrine, etc. so long as it is done in love and to build up the body and not for the purpose of accusing and judging our fellow or grieving the Spirit through our meanspiritedness and even hatefulness. Done the right way, discussion/debate can help us teach, learn, grow in the faith.

YJM said:

Curious as to the purpose.

Listening to Matt Dellahunty, Seth Andrews and others helped me to lose my faith for 2 years.

Now I have repented and I am hopefully accepted again by Christ.

Isn't it risky to allow debate that may take away others from the true faith of Christ?

What's the point?

Click to expand...

2 Corinthians 10:3-5 We have to know the Gospel and stick to our guns. That's the way that Jesus wins the debate. I like George Carlin. His routine on religion reminds me that my religiousness is not what makes me holy. Jesus is. It's not believing that there's an invisible man in the sky, it's believing in Immanuel (God with us).

YJM said:

There should not be "debate" on any Christian forum. Debate is discussing the possibility of scripture being wrong, or Christ being a fake or a liar.

No one comes to Christ on THEIR terms, they come on HIS terms.

The very subject of debate should be off limits.....otherwise we entertain the thoughts of the world, the flesh and the devil? So on a wider question then - why is there a DEBATE forum on "Christian Forums"?

(On a side note yesterday I was given a warning for comparing the Koran to toilet paper...I stand by that 100%. Why is a Christian giving me a warning for comparing the evil teachings of satan to toilet paper? I think I was actually elevating the Koran in that comparison).

Click to expand...

Don't worry about the warnings. I've been given a few for saying things. I agree with you 100%. Debating is stupid.

YJM said:

Curious as to the purpose.

Listening to Matt Dellahunty, Seth Andrews and others helped me to lose my faith for 2 years.

Now I have repented and I am hopefully accepted again by Christ.

Isn't it risky to allow debate that may take away others from the true faith of Christ?

What's the point?

Click to expand...

Just got here. Sorry....but
Who are those guys and how does a person make you lose your faith?

And welcome back!

I spent a college year with the Freewill Baptist... Who loved to argue and debate religion! I have heard that they use to go on the mountain and argue religion for the better part of the evening. One time, after a Christmas pageant, with some of our members out smoking, some young lady makes the comment... They are just like everyone else! And it really embarrassed me.

Arguing and debating religion can never be made glamorous!

Speaking from personal experience?

I've seen more than a few people - most of them adherents of mainstream Christian faith traditions - who got it in their heads that the only "research" they needed to do before debating was to read one or more overtly-hostile works and that'd be it.

These people went into the fray with the mindset that "I'm right because I belong to the right denomination", spammed canned arguments, and promptly got defeated soundly by the people they were going up against, people who had already heard those arguments and so had answers ready.

A few of these people ended up suffering psychotic breaks because they couldn't handle the strain of being defeated publicly and realizing that their trusted source may have not been wholly honest or correct.

YJM said:

Curious as to the purpose.

Listening to Matt Dellahunty, Seth Andrews and others helped me to lose my faith for 2 years.

Now I have repented and I am hopefully accepted again by Christ.

Isn't it risky to allow debate that may take away others from the true faith of Christ?

What's the point?

Click to expand...

Yeah debating is cool if both people are enjoying it. It slowly started to go from enjoyment to annoyance for me. But sometimes I get the random urge to throw my hat into the ring very briefly...then when someone starts firing back I’m quickly reminded that it annoys me.

But if two people both enjoy the mental challenge without getting annoyed it’s cool.

YJM said:

And this is the joke that you think debating excuses you from being patient, tolerant and loving.

Another waste of time.

No more replies forthcoming and another block.

Click to expand...

Respectfully I think it’s kinda weird that you write debate shouldn’t be anywhere on CF but then say once this individual defines something we can debate. I think this type of stuff is more so the issue than debate itself.

YJM said:

There should not be "debate" on any Christian forum. Debate is discussing the possibility of scripture being wrong, or Christ being a fake or a liar.

Click to expand...

No it's the possibility that the person is dead wrong. We are not got to agree especially those who throw out the historic Church for their own thing.

I have two associates degrees. I have also worked my way up as a Lab Technician at a large factory. I use to make samples as a machine operator and my company, impressed with my work, sent me to research facilities.

I have noticed that in the upper world of knowledge there are people so smart they won't even talk to you. You can meet them in a hallway or something and greet them, and their reply is to give you an inquisitive look and just keep on going. I can imagine that there is so much going on that they feel they do not have hours of time for an introduction, so they just give you a strange look and keep on going.

I think with age we learn to be that way.

YJM said:

No.

It would be the fact that Islam is anti Christian on every level and the most satanically inspired religion on earth.

Click to expand...

Same type of view as and most likely why the Jews crucified Christ, but that did not prove thier view was right, in fact we know they got it very wrong.

Your hate speech against Muhammad and the Quran is based in the same mentality.

These are the dense clouds that will always prevent the sun of Christ shining. May you become a lover of the Light, no matter where it shines from.

Peace be with you always. Regards Tony

Yeah.. I agree we forget the weak in faith .. and forget the word of our Father .. those that hear.. does it bring grace to the hearers?

YJM said:

That is not the point.

A "Christian forum" should be a place of peace and edification. Not a place of debate.

Click to expand...

If you don't like the term debate than why not just call it sharing ones beliefs so all come can come and properly assess if they are in God's genuine truth? That requires discussion.

YJM said:

Debating or witnessing without judging the audience is a waste of time.

Click to expand...

In the forum debate arena you never know who may be listening to you, and may benefit spiritually from what God lays on your heart to convey.

YJM said:

No amount of witnessing or debate will convince anyone unless they have a heart prepared by the Spirit to receive the truth.

Click to expand...

Even so, Jesus didn’t avoid confrontation from Satan himself.

YJM said:

Curious as to the purpose.

Listening to Matt Dellahunty, Seth Andrews and others helped me to lose my faith for 2 years.

Now I have repented and I am hopefully accepted again by Christ.

Isn't it risky to allow debate that may take away others from the true faith of Christ?

What's the point?

Click to expand...

The problem is that there seems to be more debate than discussion. In debate, arguments are made and each person is trying to "win" their argument by providing the most persuasive argument. There is a winner and a looser. Many times, the winner is entirely wrong but just provided a more sophisticated argument. However, more often than not, there are no winners, only losers. Especially on an online forum where their is no objective judge to declare a victor. So the arguments just keep going and going and going. It becomes a battle of attrition in which the "victor" is the one with the last word.

Discussion, on the other hand, is when two or more people bring different thoughts or ideas together to better understand the topic. In healthy conversations, it is possible for everyone to "win" when they become more informed than before. Even when their is not an agreement, there is at least a better understanding of the other's position.

Apologetics is not for "proving Christianity" to unbelievers. I have never seen anyone successfully convince a skeptic through apologetics. The only thing apologetics have ever accomplished in these situations is made the skeptic more hardened. Apologetics is for the believers, to help strengthen their faith by understanding why they should believe what they believe. Biblically speaking, we see Jesus repeatedly walking away from argument and debates and frowned upon people who asked for some sign to prove he was who he claimed to be. Also, Paul in Act 17 was presented with a similar situation in which Greek philosophers tried initiating a debate with Paul after he shared the gospel with them. His reaction?
Acts 17:32-33
"When they heard about the resurrection of the dead, some of them sneered, but others said, “We want to hear you again on this subject.” At that, Paul left the Council."

His basic response was, "You asked me about the Gospel and I told you the truth. You can either take it or leave it but I am not going to argue with you about it. Bye."

lsume said:

As I seem to recall, The Apostle Paul had trouble with the Greeks who wanted to debate. However, if Christ has prepared the soil, it will receive the seed and grow and be nurtured.

Click to expand...

Yep. Acts 17

1 Peter 3:15
But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,..."

Sola1517 said:

2 Corinthians 10:3-5 We have to know the Gospel and stick to our guns. That's the way that Jesus wins the debate. I like George Carlin. His routine on religion reminds me that my religiousness is not what makes me holy. Jesus is. It's not believing that there's an invisible man in the sky, it's believing in Immanuel (God with us).

Click to expand...

What translation of 2 Corinthians are you using?