Is abortion analogous to taxation?

redleghunter said:

The beginning of human life is conception. I gathered I did not need to rehash high school biology.

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So this law (which is silent on IUD’s) fails to protect embryos?

Pommer said:

So this law (which is silent on IUD’s) fails to protect embryos?

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Where does the law state that?

Rubiks said:

I've been thinking about the "my body; my choice" argument. If bodily autonomy is a right, can financial autonomy be a right as well? (as in "my money; my choice")

Or perhaps taxation is a necessary evil in which there is no viable alternative?

Your thoughts? Where do you draw the line?​

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of course it is. "my body, my money, my choice". havent u heard the mantra?

usually, governments get away with taxation by taxing said money before it arrives at the body. however, if one is able to digest the income prior to it being taxed, the government has no rights whatsoever to the residue.

cow451 said:

Why aren’t Right to Life people jumping on those folks using those contraceptives and calling them “Baby killers”?

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They did when the managed to get the courts to believe that businesses have religious beliefs, and can thus impose those beliefs on their employees. It is a sign of the next step in the plan after criminalizing abortion.

Pommer said:

I’m sure that when the Alabama legislature finds out this truth, its members will just be horrified that they didn’t provide for the zygotes.

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Horrified? Why? They now have another distraction to use to get poor and middle class conservatives to vote against their own best interests.

Pommer said:

So this law (which is silent on IUD’s) fails to protect embryos?

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Very good point. One imagines that a woman who wears an IUD can now be charged with conspiracy to murder? The pharmacist who sells it can be charged as an accessory?

redleghunter said:

The beginning of human life is conception. I gathered I did not need to rehash high school biology.

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Very wrong. Human life didn’t “begin”... it evolved from another species. And has continued in a unbroken chain ever since...

Philosophic discussions about human life and personhood may be interesting. But they can go on forever, and not solve anything. I'm a pragmatist. I'm interested in fairness and practicality. As regards the law, how about this: the average pregnancy lasts 40 weeks. So just split it down the middle. From fertilization up to 20 weeks, abortion is a private medical matter between doctor and patient. After 20 weeks, states can restrict it. Sure, it's arbitrary. Who cares? All laws are arbitrary. It's a fair, reasonable, and sensible compromise. What's wrong with that?

jayem said:

Philosophic discussions about human life and personhood may be interesting. But they can go on forever, and not solve anything. I'm a pragmatist. I'm interested in fairness and practicality. As regards the law, how about this: the average pregnancy lasts 40 weeks. So just split it down the middle. From fertilization up to 20 weeks, abortion is a private medical matter between doctor and patient. After 20 weeks, states can restrict it. Sure, it's arbitrary. Who cares? All laws are arbitrary. It's a fair, reasonable, and sensible compromise. What's wrong with that?

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I'm in agreement, but the problem is that the people you're arguing against see it as either murder or not murder. You cant half-a-murder somebody so compromise is still a loss to them. I don't know how you combat that.

No Username Found said:

Then we can then conclude that there is a real chance of death or severe bodily injury when a woman consents to sex. Perhaps that should be taught in sex education classes. If you don't want to risk dying, don't get pregnant. If you don't want to risk getting pregnant, don't have sex.

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Or use a reliable method of birth control. Should that fail, then decide.

Shiloh Raven said:

Yes, there is, speaking as a woman who has been pregnant nine times. But I never once considered ending the life of any of my unborn children, despite the health complications I had, the test results that my eldest son had Downs, the emergency birth inductions, and the two miscarriages.

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You made a considered choice; it wasn't forced on you.

Allandavid said:

Very good point. One imagines that a woman who wears an IUD can now be charged with conspiracy to murder? The pharmacist who sells it can be charged as an accessory?

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Pharmacists don't sell them as they have to be implanted by someone who knows what they're doing (risk of uterine perforation). It would be the gynecologist who would be charged, I guess.

Allandavid said:

Very wrong. Human life didn’t “begin”... it evolved from another species. And has continued in a unbroken chain ever since...

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Thanks for the opinion. Human life in procreation begins at conception. Settled science.

redleghunter said:

Thanks for the opinion. Human life in procreation begins at conception. Settled science.

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Even so, the Alabama law (and a number of others, recently passed or contemplated) speak of pregnancy, which does not begin until implantation.

redleghunter said:

Thanks for the opinion. Human life in procreation begins at conception. Settled science.

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If that is true then IVF clinics are killing at a rate that makes Planned Parenthood look like rookie numbers. Why aren’t conservatives going after IVF clinics that kill embryos at breath taking speed?

redleghunter said:

Thanks for the opinion. Human life in procreation begins at conception. Settled science.

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I'm sorry, this is not anywhere close to "settled science." As just one example, you have molar pregnancies, ones in which, while there is "conception" and even "implantation," only a mass of tissue grows and not a fetus/baby -- though the tissue is arguably "human tissue."

Another scientific claim is based on what it means to be "human." Is a dead person a "human," in the same terms as a fetus is? Or is death when we stop being "human?" Scientifically, higher brain functions are typically what determines "life" -- yet a fetus doesn't have higher brain functions until at least week 23 (which is roughly the soonest they can survive outside the womb). By this argument, then science would say that "humanity" really begins around 23 weeks.

While many scientists agree with the "23 weeks" claim, it is not "settled science," but the scientific claims for "human" would appear to be closer to 23 weeks than conception.

DaisyDay said:

Or use a reliable method of birth control. Should that fail, then decide.

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Or learn that no method of birth control, other than abstinence, is 100% reliable so therefore do not have sex unless you are willing to accept the risk. Seems really simple. The woman made her decision when she consented to having sex.

SimplyMe said:

Another scientific claim is based on what it means to be "human."

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Good question, how then do you define "human?" What if someone suffered a serious injury in which they no longer have "higher brain functions?" Is an unconscious individual or someone with Alzheimer's no longer "human?"

Rubiks said:

So if we redefined human life to begin at implantation, would that magically make it not murder?

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It seems a moot point. Many people believe that human life begins at conception but the beginning of human life and the beginning of pregnancy need not be the same thing.

SimplyMe said:

I'm sorry, this is not anywhere close to "settled science." As just one example, you have molar pregnancies, ones in which, while there is "conception" and even "implantation," only a mass of tissue grows and not a fetus/baby -- though the tissue is arguably "human tissue."

Another scientific claim is based on what it means to be "human." Is a dead person a "human," in the same terms as a fetus is? Or is death when we stop being "human?" Scientifically, higher brain functions are typically what determines "life" -- yet a fetus doesn't have higher brain functions until at least week 23 (which is roughly the soonest they can survive outside the womb). By this argument, then science would say that "humanity" really begins around 23 weeks.

While many scientists agree with the "23 weeks" claim, it is not "settled science," but the scientific claims for "human" would appear to be closer to 23 weeks than conception.

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Human life begins at conception. That is settled science.

Rubiks said:

So if we redefined human life to begin at implantation, would that magically make it not murder?

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Good point but life begins at conception.

TheFetalPosition.com/Conception

Life Begins at Conception – Peer Reviewed Scientific Sources