The Forefathers of the Salvation by Works Christians
- Thread starter bcbsr
- Start date
Oh please S.
What bingo?
I said something in the way YOU understand it?
I DO wish you'd forget Trent and use the CCC.
At Trent were those outside the church lost?
Are they still considered to be lost today?
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Aren't you implying that the Catholic Church tinkers with and changes it's own beliefs over time? I don't think Catholics would agree with you discarding their Council of Trent document. Don't Catholics make a big deal about treating the writings of their "church fathers" and the decisions of their councils as if they were scripture, seeing as they are anti-Sola Scriptura?
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I care not what Catholics think about their faith.
Most of them don't even know it.
Yes..things have changed after Trent.
We had Vat I in 1860 or thereabouts,
and Vat II in 1963 or thereabouts.
Most traditional catholics can't let go of the old stuff.
If one wants to know the official church teaching, they should be reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church from 1994.
I do have to say that Trent is very much revered and not everything has changed from then.
I'd also like to say that the Early Church Fathers were from right after Jesus died and while some of the Apostles were still alive...and up till 325 AD when the Council of Nicea took place.
After that they're just called the Fathers and not everyone of them contributed to doctrine and even Augustine was considered to be wrong on some points.
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Concord1968
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They try to get around that by changing the definition of what it means to be "inside the church". It's a word game where they change the doctrine without actually admitting they changed the doctrine.
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That's cute.
BUT
as usual you did NOT answer my question in post 342.
Here it is again:
At Trent were those outside the church lost?
Are they still considered to be lost today?
Come on.
I know you can do it.
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No one is complaining about derailing.
Go ahead and answer it.
Some here are interested, as I am.
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P.S.
How is it a red herring?
YOU are the one insisting on Trent.
I'm the one telling you that you should modern up and get with the CCC.
So...Are we still in Trent or not?
Just answer the question.
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Concord1968
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Shimokita
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It is a red herring because this thread is about justification, not extra Ecclesiam nulla salus, and whether the Catholic Church has changed her teaching with respect to this dogma.
As for whether we are in Trent or not, I am in Alexandria VA. I do not know where you presently are.
Now, if you want to know whether Trent is the current teaching of the Catholic Church concerning justification (the actual topic of this thread) I already provided you an answer to that question, here:
Justification and Sacramentality, fourth phase (2011-2015)
B) Justification and Sanctification: Catholic Perspective
21. A presentation of the Catholic doctrine of justification and sanctification requires a consideration of the teachings of the Council of Trent (1547), the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965) and the JDDJ (1999). Catholics believe that doctrine undergoes development and deepening in the course of history in a way that is both faithful to Scripture and tradition, on the one hand, and responsive to the needs of new contexts and questions, on the other. While the teaching of the Council of Trent is the first official, normative Catholic presentation of the doctrine of justification, Vatican II provided a solid Christological, anthropological and ecclesiological basis for this teaching and the JDDJ, as its official explanation within the context of the ecumenical dialogue, is an authoritative interpretation of it.
B) Justification and Sanctification: Catholic Perspective
21. A presentation of the Catholic doctrine of justification and sanctification requires a consideration of the teachings of the Council of Trent (1547), the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965) and the JDDJ (1999). Catholics believe that doctrine undergoes development and deepening in the course of history in a way that is both faithful to Scripture and tradition, on the one hand, and responsive to the needs of new contexts and questions, on the other. While the teaching of the Council of Trent is the first official, normative Catholic presentation of the doctrine of justification, Vatican II provided a solid Christological, anthropological and ecclesiological basis for this teaching and the JDDJ, as its official explanation within the context of the ecumenical dialogue, is an authoritative interpretation of it.
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