Women Preachers...The truth!

Jen35 said:

I still dont know what reason why Paul would teach this subject? It's like men who come home from a long hard day of work and expect supper to be on the stove when he walks into the kitchen. Without ever realizing his wife had a long hard day too taking care of the kids, cleaning the house, organizing mail and doing the laundry to wash his filthy draws before she scratch that off her to- do list. LoL. Men will never change I guess. Expecting a woman to do everything for him but never watching a game of football with his friends etc. Paul only said women can't preach because they are women, not because they are ministers and preachers. He just said those things cause she is a woman, not because she is preaching...it seems cliche to me a woman isn't allowed to do anything but cook on a hot stove with boiling water. Well men can cook too, so why not get up and cook already if you are so man enough to yell at your woman " where the food at!?!!!!!!? Why you ain't cook no food woman!!!!!?? Whatcha been doing all day?!!!! I still think Paul was persecuting the church a bit though..ha

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So, because men are unGodly, women can be too?
Real Christian men are not like your portrayal.

Phil W said:

Isn't that what women are doing now in order to have headship over men?

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Phil W said:

"She" is the subject of this thread...women who want to overturn what scripture says in order to achieve headship of....fill in the blank.
Why?
Power.

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Except that by and large, women seeking to be allowed to preach etc. aren't seeking "to have headship over" anyone. We repudiate that model of leadership altogether.

Jen35 said:

If God can create miracles, he can also create and empower a woman to preach...do not limit God and his work...cause everything belongs to him and for everything to belong to us we must belong to him also...stop putting God in some box cause the bible says he does what he will..and will do what he will and whatever pleases him....

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When the church has power over God, I will tolerate a woman having headship over her husband.
But that isn't the order outlined in scripture, is it?

Paidiske said:

Except that by and large, women seeking to be allowed to preach etc. aren't seeking "to have headship over" anyone. We repudiate that model of leadership altogether.

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You are fooling yourself.
What other biblical truths do you not agree with?

timewerx said:

This isn't right either.

Husband and Wife should be co-leaders. Not one subordinate over the other.

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Two people will always have a leader.

Phil W said:

You are fooling yourself.

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You're in no position to judge that.

Phil W said:

What other biblical truths do you not agree with?

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I reject your premise that your position is a "biblical truth" with which I disagree. I have a very high view of the Scriptures; but I understand them differently to the way you do.

Paidiske said:

You're in no position to judge that.

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I stand by what the bible says...you don't seem to.

I reject your premise that your position is a "biblical truth" with which I disagree. I have a very high view of the Scriptures; ...

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Except for 1 Tim 2:12-14.

Tone said:

I've seen many on this topic get pulled...

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I stand corrected...

timewerx said:

I would bet a lot of proponents of the belief that "wives should submit to their husband" don't actually observe this teaching!

I have personally observed many Christian families who believe the teaching literally but actually let their wives be the head of the family!

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You can bet that isn't the only sin going on there.
It is only the tip of the ice berg.

Phil W said:

I stand by what the bible says...you don't seem to.

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That's an assumption on your part.

Phil W said:

Except for 1 Tim 2:12-14.

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Not at all. But it must be read critically and in context, and with a hermeneutic which takes consistent account of other parts of Scripture.

Phil W said:

When the church has power over God, I will tolerate a woman having headship over her husband. But that isn't the order outlined in scripture, is it?

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One of the principles that we aspire to is not to expound one part of scripture in a way that is repugnant to another part of scripture. There is in scripture (and I am not about to get into a verse sling contest) more than enough that argues for equality or complementarity or an egalitarian view of people of diverse gender, including examples of women taking a role in leadership and indeed to first proclamation of the resurrection. The issue ultimately comes down to the nature of the headship you are asserting, and indeed your understanding of the ministry of the Church. Clearly we have a different view on these things, however resolution is unlikely while you assert intellectual crudeties such as the words 'the church has power over God' which is clearly and self evidently not a proposition being asserted by anyone here.

Phil W said:

That is the reason, and was written by Paul. (1 Tim 2:14)

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No, it is written ONCE in ONE verse - that doesn't make it fact or applicable to everyone.

If it DID, then God would not have chosen Deborah to be judge over all of Israel.
He would not have chosen women to be prophetesses and give his word to men - e.g Deborah, Huldah.
Jesus would not have chosen to appear to Mary Magdalene first of all after the resurrection; he would have gone to the men. Furthermore, he would have taught that women could not speak his word, teach or be his witnesses because Eve sinned before Adam did, and therefore they are not reliable.
He didn't teach anything of the sort.

Phil W said:

Isn't that what women are doing now in order to have headship over men?

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No.
Many are preaching and pastoring churches because they testify that God has called them to do this. After prayer, guiding, talking with male clergy and so on, they all believe that God - who gives ALL authority - is calling them to do this.

Phil W said:

Men (and women) of God will not subvert the order of things.

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Maybe you'd better tell God that, so he won't call women to lead.
Like I said, Deborah was judge over all Israel.

Phil W said:

Every block removed from the wall of the temple that God has built weakens it.

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As does suppressing people and not allowing them to do what God has called them to do.
The gifts, including Pastor, Ephesians 4:11, are given for building up the body, Ephesians 4:12.

Phil W said:

When the church has power over God, I will tolerate a woman having headship over her husband.
But that isn't the order outlined in scripture, is it?

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Hey look, i believe when God's people become empowered preist and preistesses of him, it isn't them working alone, it's the power of God, the holy spirit working through these people. They are no longer of themselves.They have become a temple, a temple built by God, the house in which he dwells in now. They are one with the holy spirit which makes them one with the word of God. Tell me I am wrong here, please do. It ain't the woman preaching, it's God within preaching through her. There is neither male or female for the bible says we are all one in our precious Lord Jesus Christ. And because we are one in all and because we are a special people, a chosen royal preisthood, I believe God can come in any form he pleases, may it be a small child, a man or a woman, when God is known Almighty and his ways are established in a way no one can completely understand him in a way no one can fathom his truths, I truly think God can do the impossible cause Jesus said in the Bible with man nothing is possible but with God, our almighty everlasting father, nothing is impossible.We only need see and believe cause when we believe something we are seeing it and I see it and the reason I see it is because with God and in God I can believe all things. I really don't understand the point Paul was making there, I guess he was just teaching all things without limit which only the spirit brings and while I really believe Paul was a true apostle of Jesus and the holy spirit was upon him, I also believe in a part of that teaching he was still persecuting the church in some way. lol and I don't think nothing bad of him, why would I? He was a apostle of Jesus and welcomed in God's family thereafter. I'm just saying when I read some of his stuff, he did sound quite a bit boastful. that's all. Oh and btw, i believe wives can take care of thier husbands just as the husband has that kind of authority over her to take care of her also. It's not a one way street but they are suppose to be in the same direction. What does any of this mean? Does it really matter? We are in a new age now anyway...so

And I know there are a lot of ministers or whatnot who are both men and women who say they speak for our Lord these days, but in all honesty I truly believe some of them are not really geniune people of God, most of the taught out there doesn't add up to me or maybe I'm not understanding some things however if some of them were true men and women of God they would have remained true. Theres even a scripture in the bible that says if they have belonged to us they would have stayed with us, but since they didn't, they didn't belong to us..likewise some of them speak out of accordance of the Bible and pervert God's word and themselves with false doctrine. And because of that i believe they probably don't have the holy spirit cause it seems they are not speaking from the spirit, it seems they are adding and taking away from God's word and speaking from thier own mouth. They are just misguiding and leading the people and the world away from God and causing divisions. But the bible says who we to judge God's servant? So, be it a man or a woman, I won't do that!!!

timewerx said:

Not yet. But I am going to look it up and see if the reasoning is correct.

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She uses scripture not reasoning.

Phil W said:

Scripture, please.
There is an order to the hierarchy.

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Indeed and man is to lead ie serve, and protect the woman (which Adam failed to do). But the woman was to be a helper with the work that man does. Please show me where it says that man was given to translate and interpret scripture outside of this order? For most of church history, man has kept woman out of this important role and has denied her any role worthy of her giftings in the church, the result of which is explained in Romans 1:26:

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

The church has tried to twist this to say it is about sex. It is not it is about the natural use of the woman which has has been clearly shown in Genesis, is the role of helper. So the man, instead of having the woman as his helper has turned to other men (in the ministry) disiring (lusting) to work with them instead bringing about God's wrath towards them and giving them up to their sins.

I am not preaching for homosexuality btw - it is clear that Genesis gives the natural order.