Is abortion analogous to taxation?

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To make sure men and women can get fixed when they want to. And shouldn't have to be a certain age .Or have a certain amount of kids, before they're allowed to get fixed.
I agreed with you up until this point. "Getting fixed" is a medical procedure that is permanent. Even reversals are not guaranteed to be successful. This is a procedure that a child should not have.
 
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(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)

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If it’s only for procreation, why did God make it so much fun?
Because sex is a gift of the physical manifestation of love between a husband and wife to be enjoyed. Children are a blessing that comes from that gift.
 
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So a woman has two vaginas or one and a penis when she is pregnant? Two eyes?
I think what she is trying to say is that if women need take responsibility for their own bodies by holding themselves accountable with their bodily decisions that results in them becoming pregnant. A responsible woman would ensure that proper birth control is used every time she consents to sex.
 
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I thought Alex Jones established that it was the chemicals in the water that are making the frogs gay. ;)
I am glad I found something that made you laugh. I'd buy you a beer if I could.
 
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Sparagmos

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Probably because some believe that contraceptives provides a false sense of security which results in greater sexual frequency and more opportunities the contraceptives to fail. The Guttmacher Institute, Planned Parenthood’s own research arm, released study showing that condoms fail 14% of the time. That’s enough to provide some concern, especially when coupled with the Guttmacher’s own numbers showing that over half of all abortions are on women who were using some method of birth control.
Well now we’re getting somewhere. You agreed earlier that contraceptives DO reduce abortions. And we know for a fact that access to birth control, coupled with education, reduces abortion rates. The facts you presented are distractions. Birth control without education is not as effective, and when it fails it is generally due to improper use. But none of that changes the fact that free birth control and better sex education reduces abortion rates. Period. So why not promote those things if you really want to prevent abortions?
 
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tall73

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1. Having sex is not a “binding contractual agreement”.
.

It is the current year! People are turning to apps, video, contracts, text messages, and anything else they can to indicate consent so that they avoid a me-too moment.

There is even the Consent Condom coming out to remind everyone of consent!

Consent Condom: "Consent Condom" requires four hands to open, making powerful statement about consent - CBS News

Of course, binding may still be an issue because if someone says they changed consent in the middle then it won't stick.

I am still old fashioned enough to think they are better off with the binding agreement of marriage first though.
 
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Pommer

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Well now we’re getting somewhere. You agreed earlier that contraceptives DO reduce abortions. And we know for a fact that access to birth control, coupled with education, reduces abortion rates. The facts you presented are distractions. Birth control without education is not as effective, and when it fails it is generally due to improper use. But none of that changes the fact that free birth control and better sex education reduces abortion rates. Period. So why not promote those things if you really want to prevent abortions?
Because...they want...to prevent...SEX, from occurring?
But that’s absurd since 14% of women seeking an abortion are married.

Induced Abortion in the United States
 
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tall73

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I know I keep harping on this, but I’m not getting ANY answers as to why pro-lifers aren’t pushing contraception access and education in order to prevent abortions. Look at Switzerland - their abortion rate is less than half of the U.S. rate. What is really going on, why would pro-lifers not be aggressively pushing for measures pretty much guaranteed to reduce abortions?

I am fine with contraception being taught. But I also think it is best to include all information, including the advantages of delaying sexual activity. And more young people delay sexual activity than did previously, and more do than many think.

If young people are going to have sex it is certainly best they know how to use contraception. However, the impression given that all young people are having sex is not accurate. And the CDC notes that the rate of students indicating sexual activity is going down, at 39.5 percent in 2017, nationwide having sex at some point through high school. Even accounting for under-reporting, that means the majority are not having sex, and the numbers of those who are is going down.

https://www.cdc.gov/healthyyouth/data/yrbs/pdf/2017/ss6708.pdf

Of those who are having sex at an early age those in hispanic and especially black populations have a higher rate.

And of those actively having sex 13.8 percent were not using any contraceptive. And again those rates were higher among hispanic and especially black students (though this was also improving, and more rapidly than some other rates).

They also found links to sexual activity and drug or alcohol use.

Earlier sexual activity is often found to be associated with fatherlessness in particular, and weak parental bonds in general, especially among women. There are various theories as to why, and a number of studies done.

Absent fathers and sexual strategies | The Psychologist

Fatherlessness also relates to higher poverty, higher drug use, poor mental health, higher depression etc.

There is even a link to women being less likely to use a condom when there is abandonment, etc. by the father. The article above reviews some of the literature and findings, and discusses whether this is a mating strategy issue (others have even suggested epigenetic issue).

There are higher rates of poverty and fatherlessness among the African Amercian community in particular.

You can find census data on households here, and blacks have far more households with only the mother and no other person leading the household:

America’s Families and Living Arrangements: 2017


My point being that if we are going to give children all the facts we need to acknowledge that there is more to it than just saying have sex and use a condom. They would be better off not having sex. Some groups, particularly those in poverty or homes that have involved abuse, neglect, abandonment, etc. are at greater risk of early sexual activity and other risky behavior.

This is an area where the pro-life argument does need to go beyond just abortion. These outcomes indicate that we need to find ways to address these cultural and economic risk factors along with just education on options for birth control.

By the way, as of 2010 the US has a higher rate than many countries of single parent households, and higher than Switzerland for instance.

Single Parents, Around the World

Fatherlessness, poverty, drug use, etc. are just a few of the factors. Others such as sexual abuse tend to increase promiscuity and harm later success in relationships. The educational system should try to find ways to discover what factors drive the risk of particular young people engaging in early risky sexual behaviors.

Young people also deserve to know that those who delay sexual onset often wind up making more money, receiving more education, and having fewer problems in marriage, per some data:

Can Your Sexual Debut Predict Your Future?
 
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tall73

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Additionally, the number of sexual partners impacts relational and marital happiness. This continues to be the case, even over the decades of changing sexual attitudes.

Counterintuitive Trends in the Link Between Premarital Sex and Marital Stability

This discussion of the trends and possible reasons is based on the CDC National Survey of Family Growth:

NSFG - Publications and Information Products


The discussion notes:

For all three cohorts, women who married as virgins had the lowest divorce rates by far. Eleven percent of virgin marriages (on the part of the woman, at least) in the 1980s dissolved within five years. This number fell to 8 percent in the 1990s, then fell again to 6 percent in the 2000s. For all three decades, the women with the second lowest five-year divorce rates are those who had only one partner prior to marriage. It’s reasonable to assume that these partners reflected women’s eventual husbands. Even so, premarital sex with one partner substantially increases the odds of divorce.

Interestingly there have been some changes regarding divorce rates for those with multiple partners over the decades:


The highest five-year divorce rates of all are associated with marrying in the 2000s and having ten or more premarital sex partners: 33 percent. Perhaps it is not unexpected that having many partners increases the odds of divorce. The greater surprise is that this only holds true in recent years; previously, women with two partners prior to marriage had the highest divorce rates.

Analysis of other factors:


Due to the design of the NSFG, a limited number of socio-demographic variables were amenable to analysis, including race, family structure of origin, urban vs. rural residence, age at marriage, and church attendance. Aside from religion, race and family of origin accounted for the largest portion of the sexual partners/divorce relationship. Caucasian and African American women had similar premarital sexual behavior, but Latinas and members of the “Other” population group had notably fewer sex partners and lower divorce rates than either whites or blacks. Similarly, people who grew up without both parents had more partners and divorced more.

 
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Allandavid

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It is the current year! People are turning to apps, video, contracts, text messages, and anything else they can to indicate consent so that they avoid a me-too moment.

There is even the Consent Condom coming out to remind everyone of consent!

Consent Condom: "Consent Condom" requires four hands to open, making powerful statement about consent - CBS News

Of course, binding may still be an issue because if someone says they changed consent in the middle then it won't stick.

I am still old fashioned enough to think they are better off with the binding agreement of marriage first though.

No, it’s not....

You pay too much attention to celebrities and watch too much tv...
 
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Goonie

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Not necessarily. I just suspect that their will be a rapid increase of "miscarriages" as abortions decline.
So the unborn are not entitled to justice? Sorry but if you constitutionally make the unborn people then their deaths would have to be treated in exactly the same way as any other death. An inquest for every miscarriage, a legal duty to report the death of the child to the authorities etc.
 
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Rubiks

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So the unborn are not entitled to justice? Sorry but if you constitutionally make the unborn people then their deaths would have to be treated in exactly the same way as any other death. An inquest for every miscarriage, a legal duty to report the death of the child to the authorities etc.

Don't give the far right ideas.
 
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